[01:00:10:16 - 01:00:15:07]
Brenton
 Welcome back to Further. I am Brenton Grimm, Chris Carr. Glad to have you back. How you doing?

[01:00:15:07 - 01:00:17:23]
Chris
 It's good to be back. Yeah, I'm doing pretty good.

[01:00:17:23 - 01:00:20:22]
Brenton
 You spent some time traveling. How was that?

[01:00:20:22 - 01:00:22:10]
Brenton
 Well, it's-- You can't call it a vacation up there.

[01:00:22:10 - 01:00:35:15]
Chris
 It's traveling. Yeah, I don't know. There was vacation elements in it. So there were a few days where we did put a lot of miles on the vehicle. Saw a lot of family, a lot of different sites, a lot of Texas, which there's a lot of Texas to see.

[01:00:35:15 - 01:00:42:07]
Chris
 It was good. But yeah, it did really feel like we kind of needed a vacation. We can get back from the supposed vacation.

[01:00:42:07 - 01:00:43:23]
Brenton
 That's how it always is.

[01:00:43:23 - 01:00:51:20]
Chris
 Yeah. So maybe the most disappointing thing is that it's just as hot here as it was in Texas, which is saying something. It's cool enough, dude. Yeah.

[01:00:51:20 - 01:00:55:04]
Brenton
 All right. Well, yeah, you preached on John 12.

[01:00:55:04 - 01:01:15:00]
Brenton
 So we'll just jump in. You talked about people who claim the name of Christ for what they can get from Jesus. In this passage, it's Judas that you were talking about. What does that typically look like today? And what does that commonly look like for people to claim Christ to get something out of it?

[01:01:15:00 - 01:01:18:20]
Chris
 I think it can come about, or at least initially,

[01:01:18:20 - 01:01:28:15]
Chris
 I think of two different ways that it can kind of show itself. The one would be from those who go into ministry to profit.

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Chris
 The New Testament, especially Paul, talks about this on a number of occasions about viewing the ministry, i.e. what Paul calls godliness as a means to gain.

[01:01:40:02 - 01:01:45:09]
Chris
 And so you go in and you preach, teach, pastor,

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Chris
 evangelize whatever for the sake of a following and the material blessings that come along with that. And we've got plenty of evidence of that in our culture today.

[01:01:54:22 - 01:02:15:16]
Chris
 We don't really probably even need to get into that. But then maybe more for the normal person would be simply believing that Jesus is kind of like this genie in the bottle, that I say the magic words, or I do the right kind of things.

[01:02:15:16 - 01:02:39:05]
Chris
 And then he's going to give me what I want, what I desire, what I need. And so I think the big picture here is viewing Jesus as a means to an end instead of the end in and of himself. And so we're in it for what he can give us or we think he can give us, and instead of in it really

[01:02:39:05 - 01:02:42:11]
Chris
 to worship him, to follow him, to know him.

[01:02:42:11 - 01:03:12:13]
Chris
 And I just think that-- I think this is a temptation for everybody. And I would maybe even say, I think it's probably something that's common to nearly every Christian is we have this temptation. I think that because we're following Jesus, then he should be doing X, Y, or Z for us. And when that doesn't happen, that we can struggle. Some people fall away. We have examples again of that in the New Testament. Judas is a perfect example.

[01:03:12:13 - 01:03:25:14]
Chris
 But yeah, I think that more typically for the average person, it's just going to be like Jesus is a way to the things that I really long for and desire.

[01:03:25:14 - 01:03:35:20]
Brenton
 Yeah. Yeah, I like how you frame that, that we need to recognize Jesus as the end, not a means to an end.

[01:03:35:20 - 01:03:55:10]
Brenton
 I think that this can show itself in a lot of ways. And I think Judas specifically here is malicious in his goals, which probably isn't the case for most church-attender Christians.

[01:03:55:10 - 01:04:09:12]
Brenton
 Although you bring up prosperity gospel, that probably is. Yeah. That does have malicious intent behind it. But how can we guard against this? What things should be on our mind as we consider this?

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Chris
 It's probably worth the whole episode in and of itself. But I'll just be brief here. I think it begins with understanding

[01:04:17:07 - 01:04:28:01]
Chris
 that God is the center and not man, and having a God-centered a theology, and then out of that theology, an approach to life.

[01:04:28:01 - 01:04:40:01]
Chris
 And that's really hard to do in the world that we live in today that makes everything about the individual and the person. And it's about me. And that's also the tendency of our flesh

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Chris
 to be self-centered.

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Chris
 And so it takes intentionality. And I think it takes practice and work, and what are known as the spiritual disciplines, and accountability, and all those things. But just to have a place of things in our lives that are going to continue to erect us towards Jesus at the center, and that all things, as Colossians, Paul talks about, and Colossians 1, that all things are about Him, that everything, He might be preeminent.

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Chris
 And so I think that that's in a nutshell, there's a lot of different aspects that we could talk about there, but it really is.

[01:05:19:14 - 01:05:37:08]
Chris
 I don't know if this is true for everybody. I have a suspicion that it is, but my heart always tends to go kind of sideways into like, this is about me, and what's happening to me, and what I need, and what I want.

[01:05:37:08 - 01:05:38:12]
Chris
 And instead of,

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Chris
 well, I just find I have to pretty much every day try to recalibrate my heart towards what it really truly is supposed to be about. And that's Him.

[01:05:49:17 - 01:05:57:04]
Brenton
 Yeah. Yeah, maybe there's something to be said about the way people evangelize too. In some respect,

[01:05:57:04 - 01:06:15:18]
Brenton
 we do become Christians to gain something, right? Sure. That is part of the deal, but when Christianity is sold as like, what can Jesus do for you? I think that's a lot of times you keep them with what you win them with, and I think that's,

[01:06:15:18 - 01:06:21:14]
Brenton
 yeah, that can be detrimental to it, if you come in with the expectation of what am I gonna get out of this, even if it's good things.

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Chris
 Yeah, so John Piper, I don't have access to this right now, but he has got a great quote where he really asked the question, you know, if you could have everything that you wanted,

[01:06:33:17 - 01:06:37:13]
Chris
 basically a heaven where you could have everything that you wanted, but Jesus wasn't there,

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Chris
 is that the heaven that, would you be satisfied with that? And his point in there is that if your answer to that is yes,

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Chris
 then you really are missing the boat. And I think the point is, is to be honest with ourselves about how we answer that question,

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Chris
 is not, you know, to say the right answer, like, give me the right answer, is like, would I be, you know, okay with the heaven where there's no sin and no conflict, and I've got all the material pleasures in the world, but Jesus is not part of that. And, you know, is that like, okay, yeah, sign me up for that.

[01:07:16:09 - 01:07:23:12]
Chris
 And that's, you know, he's got Piper's out loud in collecting quotes, that's probably the number one, for me. Yeah, well,

[01:07:23:12 - 01:07:31:15]
Chris
 that's an interesting question to consider. I think it's in the book, God is the Gospel. In fact, I'm pretty sure that that's the book, if anybody wants to read it. And so his point is, the good news,

[01:07:31:15 - 01:07:43:20]
Chris
 the whole point of the book is the good news is God is, like we get God, that's the good news, is that that's what we gain. And so we do get in it to gain things,

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Chris
 and the preeminent one is, you know, forgiveness of sins, eternal life, like all of those things, we've seen this in John,

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Chris
 but ultimately those are all true in a relationship with Him. They only come to us in Him, in relationship to Him. And in some ways are side benefits of being restored to Him.

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Brenton
 Yeah, I don't know, I think it's easy to go down that road when you're talking to an unbeliever or something, that it's a lot easier to, you know,

[01:08:11:20 - 01:08:23:13]
Brenton
 give them the positive sides of this rather, because, you know, it can, it's obviously a hard sell of like, hey, you need Jesus, but it's a lot easier to say, hey, what am I gonna get out of this?

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Chris
 Well, interesting about this, like, we don't see Jesus or the New Testament authors generally evangelizing in terms of, hey, do you wanna go to heaven when you die?

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Chris
 Like, that's not the language that we see generally speaking. Absolutely.

[01:08:41:16 - 01:08:49:07]
Brenton
 Okay, so in reference to Lazarus and the plot to kill him, you said that as Christians, we should expect persecution.

[01:08:49:07 - 01:09:00:23]
Brenton
 So if we expect that, how should we prepare for it? And, you know, in what ways are we likely to see that in our culture?

[01:09:00:23 - 01:09:16:11]
Chris
 Well, I would begin to answer that question by going back to the previous discussion, because I think it's, again, it's having a God-centered approach to things. And all the things that I referenced there in terms of what that means, I think is probably the place to start.

[01:09:16:11 - 01:09:27:17]
Chris
 The other thing I think is important is to, again, be honest with ourselves, and this time in regard to how much we love this present world.

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Chris
 And really, we're talking about, again, how idolatry-prone that we are, because if we are loving the things of this world, or even loving our own life, so to speak, so much to the point that we're not willing to give it up, lay it down, lose it,

[01:09:48:19 - 01:10:22:06]
Chris
 then we're not ready for persecution. And so I think in sometimes, this is, again, where this discipline thing comes into is, like, there are things that we have access to and the things that we can do, but I think the Christian doesn't always ask, what can I do, but rather, what should I do? What's wise to do? What's the best to do? I think that's lost a lot today, especially in some of the younger generations. It's not so much for a Christian, can I do this? If you're asking that question, you're probably off base. It's more like, should I do this?

[01:10:22:06 - 01:10:27:14]
Chris
 What's wise, what's best, what's actually gonna be, help me in my discipleship to Jesus?

[01:10:27:14 - 01:10:35:16]
Chris
 So another way that's really helpful, and I talked about global missions on Sunday, ministries are a little bit,

[01:10:35:16 - 01:10:52:13]
Chris
 I find it helpful to get beyond your own comfort zone and to see how other people, other Christians are living and oftentimes the conditions that they are facing and the difficulty that life is for them.

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Chris
 And that may not be face to face, but read a book. There's a great books, while I'm referring to books here, called "A Company of Heroes"

[01:11:05:03 - 01:11:08:12]
Chris
 that is basically stories, it's really well written.

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Chris
 And there's actually a number of different books, but the first one is "A Company of Heroes." So it's basically just stories of believers who are ministering in some of the hard places and just really inspiring, convicting. There's missionary biographies, lots of them too.

[01:11:23:13 - 01:11:27:12]
Chris
 So there's a number of ways, but that's probably where I would begin.

[01:11:27:12 - 01:11:31:09]
Brenton
 Okay, when you think about our culture today,

[01:11:31:09 - 01:11:45:00]
Brenton
 I don't know if persecution is the right word for most of the things that happen, but there are examples of this. And you brought up one on Sunday of just a situation that we end up in with the culture moving the way they are.

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Brenton
 How do you think most people interact with that kind of thing today? What's the most prevalent kind of persecution we see?

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Chris
 Well,

[01:11:54:19 - 01:11:56:10]
Chris
 quite honestly,

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Chris
 I'm not sure that many of us, and I would even be careful not to fail to include myself in this, or not really experiencing persecution because we're not really living in such a way where we are opening ourselves up to that. So Paul says 2 Timothy 3, 12, "All who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted."

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Chris
 So that's a convicting verse, like all.

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Chris
 And so some of the question becomes, are we really at times taking the stands that we need to take, having the conversations we need to avoiding the things that we would need to be avoid, or taking,

[01:12:45:05 - 01:12:59:15]
Chris
 just being willing to deal with the consequences for not saying something or doing something or being involved in something. And sometimes it can be, I think, especially today, a lot of times it can be just simply, we're a little bit on the out, we're not included.

[01:12:59:15 - 01:13:02:06]
Chris
 It could be some comments, it could be some remarks.

[01:13:02:06 - 01:13:08:13]
Chris
 But I do think that there are people who are in the,

[01:13:08:13 - 01:13:10:20]
Chris
 the secular arena,

[01:13:10:20 - 01:13:21:09]
Chris
 whether it be in the public schools or a company or whatever that have some pretty hard lines as to what you can and can't talk about,

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Chris
 and where you can go, you can't go, who just,

[01:13:26:10 - 01:13:36:16]
Chris
 and I think that those could be really hard places to be in and they take a lot of wisdom, as maybe we'll get into this in a little bit.

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Chris
 But I think that the question we all have to just face up to is are we willing to pay the cost that it calls, that it might cost us to follow Jesus in any certain place, in certain times, certain situation.

[01:13:54:09 - 01:14:01:21]
Brenton
 Yeah, one of the things that you said in the sermon was don't go looking for trouble. What does that look like? What were you referring to there?

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Chris
 Well, Jesus talks about, and I think it's Matthew 11, I'm sending you out a sheep in the midst of wool, so be wise as serpents and innis and as dubs. So being wise as serpents is like, let me be very careful about what I say and how I say it. And is this, I was referring back, I talk about the school setting that we're talking about. So we have a lot of teachers and public school employees.

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Chris
 They have to use wisdom as to know when to say things, when not to say things and what's gonna be wise, where I can be a witness, but also where I can maintain my witness because if I am not careful enough, I can be, lose my job, and then I lose my opportunity to be witness. So it's a fine line there. And I wanna be really careful in saying,

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Chris
 given any prescriptions, because I think a lot of it is contextual, and that's the same way it may be in various companies.

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Chris
 My son, one of my sons works for a very, very large

[01:15:13:13 - 01:15:17:17]
Chris
 multinational company, and there's only some very,

[01:15:17:17 - 01:15:35:09]
Chris
 he is hard to evangelize, but you gotta kinda be careful as to exactly how can I do that while I maintain my job and to be sensitive in that. But again, wise as serpents, but innocent as doves, is like we're wise, we're careful about what we say.

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Chris
 We're not intentionally gonna get in people's faces just to like, okay, I gotta make a stand here.

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Chris
 But we're also gonna be innocent as doves, which means that we, I think a lot, it's like we're gonna live out these beatitudes that Jesus talks about in the Sermon on the Mount, and in a way that we are living and approaching people, related people in a way that's attractive.

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Chris
 Hopefully, attractive, like there's something different about us that attracts people, maybe not necessarily first of all to the message,

[01:16:07:18 - 01:16:15:14]
Chris
 but to the way that we are living and approaching things. And so it's interesting, wise as serpents, okay,

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Chris
 but innocent as doves, and it's almost like Jesus calls us something nearly impossible there.

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Chris
 That's not the first time right? Right, but being peaceful and gentle, I love the word meek, which so often sounds, can be interpreted as weak and it's not,

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Chris
 it's basically strength, courageous strength, courageous,

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Chris
 gentle strength.

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Chris
 And some of the aim for, it's hard to attain.

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Brenton
 Yeah, for sure.

[01:16:47:04 - 01:16:58:02]
Brenton
 I feel like this is a conversation we've had quite a bit, but you talked about the difference between serving to be loved and serving because we're loved.

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Brenton
 Break that down a little more for us. Why do you think the distinction is important?

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Chris
 Well, I'll just give an example that maybe you'll help to summarize all this. And if we wanna talk about it a little bit more, we can. If I am serving you in order to be loved, if you don't respond the way that I feel is affirming to me or accepting of me or makes me feel good, then I'm liable to get angry at you and to lash out at you.

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Chris
 I'm overstating in a little bit here.

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Chris
 If I am serving you because I am loved, have a deep sense of Christ's love for me,

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Chris
 then I won't need you to respond in certain way

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Chris
 to my serving of you. I can, even if it maybe does hurt me, I can still return to my safe kind of base of acceptance

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Chris
 and love in him.

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Chris
 And I don't, it will be nice for you to recognize me

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Chris
 and to say thank you or whatever to respond positively, but I don't absolutely have to have it.

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Chris
 If I'm doing it to get love, then if I don't get it,

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Chris
 I'm gonna probably be a mess inside and that very well may lead me to make a mess on the outside with you.

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Chris
 And I could talk about this for a long, long time, but I think that that's really even people who are not aware of it. And there are many people, especially men who are not aware of this, who they are, because they've never even maybe thought about it in these terms, but they are doing what they are doing because they are trying to be acknowledged, affirmed, accepted.

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Chris
 They're trying to get a sense that I'm okay, that I'm good, that I'm enough, that I've done,

[01:18:45:03 - 01:18:49:09]
Chris
 like I've made it all this kind of thing. And so when,

[01:18:49:09 - 01:18:56:11]
Chris
 what happens is that like that, when you serve like that or you live like that, it's never enough.

[01:18:56:11 - 01:18:59:19]
Chris
 Yeah. Okay, so the person who makes,

[01:18:59:19 - 01:19:11:05]
Chris
 I think I just saw Elon Musk is now worth $400 billion or whatever, and literally I read yesterday, by the end of 20, 20, 70, he might be worth a trillion dollars.

[01:19:11:05 - 01:19:14:17]
Chris
 I'm pretty sure- That's what I'm paying for. I'm pretty sure it's not gonna be enough

[01:19:14:17 - 01:19:25:02]
Chris
 because I'm psychoanalyzing Elon Musk here, which is probably a dangerous thing to do. Good luck, I'll sit back. All of a sudden, the Further Podcast took off. This was the moment.

[01:19:25:02 - 01:19:46:04]
Chris
 But like there's, inside of him, there's something that wants to, like I need this. I mean, you should just say how many kids he has, but how many different women? Like it's just more and more and more, because he's trying to be loved. He's trying to have something in him that wants to know that he's good, he's loved, he's accepted.

[01:19:46:04 - 01:20:01:16]
Chris
 And as a result, just look at all the damage that the guy is doing. And obviously, I'm not trying to get political, but you just look at all these children and the mess of a life he's creating for them.

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Chris
 And so my point is, and here I now have used an example that I said was gonna be brief,

[01:20:06:16 - 01:20:24:08]
Chris
 but when we can operate from this base that I am deeply loved by my creator and my savior, and he couldn't possibly love me anymore than he does, and he's God, he's infinite, so he loves me infinitely,

[01:20:24:08 - 01:20:35:22]
Chris
 then yeah, I want, it's fine, it's good for me to want to, to have that desire for people to say, "Hey,

[01:20:35:22 - 01:21:01:05]
Chris
 thank you," or whatever. I think we're made to experience affirmation from other people, but if I don't get that, and then the world that we live in, you're not always gonna get that, because other people got their own issues going on, then I can still be okay, and I can still have joy and peace and contentment, even if I don't get those kind of things.

[01:21:01:05 - 01:21:26:05]
Brenton
 So then transfer that over to the way we serve Jesus, so Jesus isn't going to let us down in that way, but if we're looking for something that we're not gonna get, the idea of serving because we're already accepted,

[01:21:26:05 - 01:21:28:13]
Brenton
 instead of serving to be accepted,

[01:21:28:13 - 01:21:38:05]
Brenton
 we're already there, so what does that look like in service to Jesus? Is that different than the way we are doing that from person to person?

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Chris
 I'm not exactly sure, I know what you're asking here.

[01:21:42:09 - 01:21:51:21]
Chris
 In terms of simply serving him for his sake is, an end really in and of itself,

[01:21:51:21 - 01:22:01:00]
Chris
 and I was saying he died for me, I'll live for him, and it's very biblical in 2 Corinthians 5, 14, and 15,

[01:22:01:00 - 01:22:27:19]
Chris
 and I think maybe it goes back to what we were talking about earlier, about are we serving him because he's gonna give us these things, or are we just doing it, he gave everything for me, so it's a joy and a delight, I don't need, he's already done everything for me, I don't need to do anything, do you need him to do anything else for me?

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Brenton
 Yeah, right.

[01:22:28:15 - 01:22:35:11]
Brenton
 Okay, so verse eight says, "For the poor you always have with you, "but you do not always have me."

[01:22:35:11 - 01:22:40:03]
Brenton
 And I think it's pretty obvious here that he's not saying that we should neglect the poor,

[01:22:40:03 - 01:22:57:12]
Brenton
 in fact, this seems to be a reference back to Deuteronomy 15, I don't know if that was in his mind, but Deuteronomy 15 says, "For there will never cease to be poor in the land, "therefore I command you, "you shall open wide your hand to your brother, "to the needy and to the poor in your land."

[01:22:57:12 - 01:23:14:14]
Brenton
 But I do think that this sacrifice by Mary does make a stark contrast to the story that we read last week about Caiaphas and him taking this very pragmatic path forward and frankly, selfish path.

[01:23:14:14 - 01:23:18:04]
Brenton
 What do you think Jesus meant here when he was talking about,

[01:23:18:04 - 01:23:20:00]
Brenton
 the poor will always be among you?

[01:23:20:00 - 01:23:27:10]
Chris
 Well, I think first you're absolutely correct in assuming that Jesus is thinking of Deuteronomy 15.

[01:23:27:10 - 01:23:32:17]
Chris
 And I think that that's an important passage actually to answer your question is that

[01:23:32:17 - 01:23:43:17]
Chris
 we should have a heart to care for, not only a heart, but we should actually be caring for the poor. I think what Jesus is getting at here is that he should be the priority.

[01:23:43:17 - 01:23:43:19]
Brenton
 Yeah.

[01:23:43:19 - 01:23:52:19]
Chris
 And so there are two different ways that we can go sideways when it comes to this issue of caring for the poor. And we see this,

[01:23:52:19 - 01:24:07:01]
Chris
 it's been playing out for about a century now in American Christianity, and it's still playing out today. The one side is where it's essentially the social gospel is like we just, it's all about caring for the poor.

[01:24:07:01 - 01:24:11:04]
Chris
 That's the mission of the church is to care for the poor.

[01:24:11:04 - 01:24:12:22]
Chris
 And the poor now today are including

[01:24:12:22 - 01:24:24:12]
Chris
 any type of marginalized group of people that we choose to put into that. Whether it's in regards to immigrants,

[01:24:24:12 - 01:24:31:23]
Chris
 to sexual preferences, and identity and all those kinds of things. So there's that.

[01:24:31:23 - 01:24:58:10]
Chris
 And then there's the other side where they take this passage and it's like, well, Jesus says, "Hey, care for me. Like I'm the priority." And so there's, we really don't have a responsibility to minister to the poor. And I think when we interpret John 12, along with, as you pointed out, Deuteronomy 15, it helps us to understand that it's a both and. Jesus is the priority,

[01:24:58:10 - 01:25:25:12]
Chris
 but necessarily as a part of making him the priority is to care for the things and the people in particular that he has called us to care for, which is undoubtedly the poor and the most vulnerable amongst us. And in fact, the very famous parable in Matthew 25 of the sheep and the goats, Jesus says,

[01:25:25:12 - 01:25:40:00]
Chris
 that the way that we care for the least of these, your brothers, that is the way that you have cared for me. Now that's, again, now we can talk about the misunderstanding and misapplication of that.

[01:25:40:00 - 01:26:26:07]
Chris
 Jesus's point is that his followers and Jesus's half-brother James talks about this and his letter too, is that this idea of faith without works is dead. And some of the works are to care for the people that Jesus in the New Testament and God the Father in the Old Testament had a special, what I would say I for, and that is the overarching term there is the poor, the needy, the most vulnerable. You put widows in there, you put orphans in there. You actually do put in, in Old Testament are called aliens, foreigners in your midst.

[01:26:26:07 - 01:26:32:03]
Chris
 And that may be an unpopular statement today, but it's very biblical.

[01:26:32:03 - 01:26:48:19]
Brenton
 Okay, so, I think what you're getting at here is that Jesus, us serving Jesus as a priority isn't necessarily mutually exclusive from serving those around us, right? Those two are very connected.

[01:26:48:19 - 01:26:53:09]
Brenton
 So what can we learn about the way we should worship from this passage,

[01:26:53:09 - 01:27:17:18]
Brenton
 especially in light of what Mary did and how, I don't know, impractical that it was? I mean, you're saying $30,000 for this one act would be widely regarded as impractical. So what can we learn from that kind of worship? How does that affect how we worship today?

[01:27:17:18 - 01:27:25:00]
Chris
 Yeah, I think first of all, you gotta understand that this passage is descriptive, it's not prescriptive.

[01:27:25:00 - 01:27:25:23]
Brenton
 Right.

[01:27:25:23 - 01:27:40:09]
Chris
 Okay, so it's very possible that this represented a large portion of the family's wealth. Like this was essentially their savings, retirement, whatever, that's what it represented.

[01:27:40:09 - 01:27:47:12]
Chris
 And so I can only imagine what Lazarus and Martha are thinking is, it literally is gone.

[01:27:47:12 - 01:27:49:12]
Brenton
 Yeah, let me interject for a second here.

[01:27:49:12 - 01:27:52:01]
Brenton
 Why would they have this on their shelf?

[01:27:52:01 - 01:27:57:14]
Brenton
 Like, is there any indication as to why, like I can't imagine holding $30,000 worth of perfume on my shelf.

[01:27:57:14 - 01:27:58:11]
Chris
 Yeah.

[01:27:58:11 - 01:28:03:20]
Chris
 I don't know that I know exactly that answer. I think part of it is they were,

[01:28:03:20 - 01:28:06:07]
Chris
 it would appear maybe a fairly wealthy family.

[01:28:06:07 - 01:28:08:02]
Brenton
 Okay, yeah, and that would make sense.

[01:28:08:02 - 01:28:11:15]
Chris
 Like actually this party was not held at their home.

[01:28:11:15 - 01:28:19:02]
Chris
 Matthew tells us, I believe it was Matthew, one of the other three gospels tells us that it was at the home of a guy named Simon the leper.

[01:28:19:02 - 01:28:21:17]
Chris
 Jesus had healed him, Simon formerly the leper.

[01:28:21:17 - 01:28:33:11]
Chris
 And so, but the previous dinner was at their home. And so to have a home that's big enough for all of these people, they're probably a fairly wealthy family.

[01:28:33:11 - 01:28:44:22]
Chris
 And obviously there weren't banks there. And so I guess the theory is, is like this would be one way to, It's an asset.

[01:28:44:22 - 01:28:51:01]
Chris
 Yeah, some type of asset, some way to, because it would appreciate over time.

[01:28:51:01 - 01:28:55:13]
Chris
 That's my guess. So what was the question you were asking me before?

[01:28:55:13 - 01:28:57:17]
Brenton
 How should this inform the way we worship?

[01:28:57:17 - 01:29:07:09]
Chris
 It's not prescriptive. So I don't think like we should take from this as like we're to go out and to spend, Right.

[01:29:07:09 - 01:29:11:01]
Chris
 necessarily give nearly all of our wealth away.

[01:29:11:01 - 01:29:34:14]
Chris
 But I do think it does tell us that acts of worship that a lot of people may seem crazy or over the top are not illegitimate and in fact, are even to, that's what Jesus deserves. And I would say that it probably is instructing us that our worship of Jesus should be the,

[01:29:34:14 - 01:30:18:18]
Chris
 such the case that people were like, wow, what are they doing? And in some ways that might be in the way that we express ourselves in literally in worship services, but I think more it's along the lines, it's like, yeah, they're really sacrificing and they're doing it because they love Jesus. I think that what we should take from this probably more than anything is that our worship of Him and that can be in a lot of different forms should be in such a way that it is extravagant in the eyes of other people, not that we're doing it for attention,

[01:30:18:18 - 01:30:28:22]
Chris
 but that it just really shows that whatever, however we're worshiping we're doing it in such a way that shows the true worth of Jesus.

[01:30:28:22 - 01:30:32:09]
Chris
 And I think in that way, it has a lot,

[01:30:32:09 - 01:31:02:10]
Chris
 a lot to say and probably there's a lot of conviction there available for probably all of us in terms of are we really devoting ourselves to Jesus? So there's this passage in the Old Testament where David tells someone, there's a guy who wants to give him a piece of land for him to, I believe is to make an altar sacrifice to the Lord and he says, I'm not gonna give to the Lord anything that costs me nothing.

[01:31:02:10 - 01:31:03:15]
Chris
 And so,

[01:31:03:15 - 01:31:12:17]
Chris
 yeah, and I think that it's pretty convicting to me and I think probably can be so for many of us.

[01:31:12:17 - 01:31:17:06]
Brenton
 Yeah, all right, well we're up there. Appreciate it, Chris.

[01:31:17:06 - 01:31:18:00]
Chris
 Yeah.

[01:31:18:00 - 01:31:18:18]
Brenton
 Good to have you back.

[01:31:18:18 - 01:31:25:14]
Chris
 Yeah, I got the triumphal entry this week. So it's Palm Sunday in July. I think this is perfect. Well timed. Yes.

[01:31:25:14 - 01:31:31:17]
Brenton
 All right, if you have any questions, ask at furtherpodcast.com and we will talk to you next week.

[01:31:31:17 - 01:31:35:22]
 (Upbeat Music)