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Brenton
 Welcome back to Further. I am Brenton Grimm.

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Brenton
 Welcome, Clay Baker and Matt Mitchell. How are you guys doing?

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Clay
 You're doing good. Thanks for having us.

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Brenton
 Yeah, great. Thanks. As we start this, there's a printer going off in the corner of the room. So we'll just ignore that.

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Clay
 I'm printing my notes right now.

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Brenton
 All right, well, as we kind of jump into this, both of you approach this passage in different ways. Clay, you spent time talking about the oneness of the Trinity,

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Brenton
 Christ's purpose, and what our response is, what our response to that should be. Matt, your sermon centered on the four reasons Jesus came, so that we would see the Father, that we would walk in the light, and that we'd experience mercy and gain life.

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Brenton
 As you prepped this week, how did both of you guys kind of land on those outlines?

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Matt
 Well, I was actually struck by how much similarity there was between Matt and myself. And to be honest, for full disclosure to those listening, I was on vacation for a couple weeks before the preaching week and came back and just dove right in and did not realize that Matt was even preaching on Sunday. So we didn't compare notes or anything. And I actually kind of had a little shout out of sorts to the Fort Madison campus in my sermon on Sunday, believing they were listening like I was live streaming down there. And they were not. They were getting Matt live. So kind of an interesting week.

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Matt
 So I went back and listened to Matt's after the fact and was really struck by how much similarity there was. So yeah, we organized our sermons differently. I talked about one in substance and then went into the purpose of the one purpose of God and Father, God the Father and God the Son.

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Matt
 But Matt just kind of organized all four points of his into like purpose, like why Jesus came. But otherwise, I thought the substance was largely the same or similar.

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Clay
 Yeah.

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Clay
 Yeah, I agree. I received Clay's manuscript through an email and saw what the direction he was going. And I felt pretty good, even though it was structured a little bit different. The same content was getting communicated.

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Clay
 Yeah. So.

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Brenton
 Yeah.

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Brenton
 Cool.

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Brenton
 So Matt, you highlighted verse 47 where Jesus says, I did not come to judge.

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Brenton
 And that his first coming is ultimately about mercy in life. This verse and others like it are often used as an excuse for not confronting sin.

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Brenton
 How should we actually interpret the words, these words from Jesus?

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Clay
 Yeah, that's a great question.

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Clay
 And to go after the sort of cultural caricature of God's, he doesn't judge Jesus. He's not, he's accepting, he doesn't judge us, et cetera.

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Clay
 I think if you just press on somebody a little bit on that and you can even affirm him and say, well, Jesus does say in places like our passage, I didn't come to judge, but to save. However, in the same passage, he says, you will be judged by my words on the last day. And if you just press somebody to say, what was the purpose of Jesus coming then? To anybody who's just sort of trying to wiggle out of something like, I'm gonna live the way I wanna live. The purpose that he came was to save us. Like what do we need saved from? Why do we need saved?

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Clay
 Talks about him coming as light and we're the dark. And so it's like, yeah, you can't really use the word ever to make an excuse for sin because Jesus hasn't come to judge. So honestly, it's just this amazing truth that we deserve judgment, but he's coming, it's like, hey, there is a future judgment, but I've come to give mercy. And that's great news.

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Clay
 Better news than living in our sin.

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Matt
 Well, I really, yeah, to go off what the last part, you just said, Matt, if we didn't need saved, why did he come? So we gotta be saved from something, right? Death, condemnation, wrath,

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Matt
 whatever, however you wanna describe it. So he's saying, I came to save you from that. Well, there's something to save us from though, because of our sin. And so he's saving us from that, saving us to life, to light in him, to a whole new way of life. And it's ultimately something much better for us.

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Brenton
 Yeah, so what implications does that have on us today? You know, I mean, obviously we could go to the gospel here, but also just thinking about that objection that we hear a lot usually comes from like an accusation of judgment from a believer, right? That we're calling someone out on their sin. And the idea here is that, well, Jesus says he doesn't judge. Right, so what implication can we pull from this idea that Jesus came for mercy, but will come back with judgment?

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Clay
 Yeah, I mean, I think it's always good to take the approach that Jesus has come to save us too.

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Clay
 I'm in pretty good shape.

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Clay
 So he didn't really need to save me from anything, but he needs to save you from something. Obviously that's not how you do evangelism. That's not realistic, because we all have darkness. We all have sin. He came to save us. And so we're just sharing good news with others that this is true for us and it's true for you. And some people are gonna be offended and some people are gonna believe.

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Clay
 And am I answering the question? Yeah.

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Matt
 Yeah, and I'm thinking of Galatians 6.1, "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness." So that's a command there. And it deals with sin, uses the word transgression,

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Matt
 but it's talking about how fellow believers are to address sin. So that involves talking about it, that involves seeing it in ourselves and in someone else. And I mentioned ourselves because we know from the Sermon on the Mount, we're to remove the log from our own eye before we address the speck in our brother's eye. And I think that gets to gentleness as well. It comes with a sense of humility. And that's what Matt was just talking about. We need to recognize that we need save too,

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Matt
 but it doesn't mean we ignore sin or pretend like it's not harmful or doesn't need to be dealt with.

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Matt
 Yeah.

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Brenton
 Okay, Clay, you connected this passage to the early church wrestling over Arianism and the Trinity.

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Brenton
 First, could you kind of give us a quick explanation of what Arianism is?

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Matt
 Yeah, I mean, in a nutshell, it's that Jesus is divine, but He's not as divine as God the Father. He's not truly or completely God, that there is one God, but it's not Jesus. And Jesus was a created being, even though He's way higher and greater than us mere mortals. He's still nevertheless, He's still not equivalent to the Creator God. So that's Arianism in a nutshell. And then, yeah, the early church had to fight hard against it, because it was one of the more popular heresies, but they did and they came together in the Council of Nicaea in AD 325.

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Matt
 And then again, in the Council of Constantinople in AD 381. And they hammered out what we now have as the Nicene Creed, which is much fuller in scope than just the Father and the Son, but kind of the precipitating event of those councils was this relationship between the Father and the Son.

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Matt
 And they really laid it out there, didn't necessarily decide it there, it was the consensus of the church already. They were just recognizing it and acknowledging it, formalizing it.

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Matt
 But yeah, it's a great document to go back and look at. And it spells out there how Father, Son and Spirit are all, they're all God, all equally God, all co-eternal. And the three persons of the Trinity are one God.

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Brenton
 Yeah, I think it's easy to look at something like Arianism and kind of leave it back in the past, but it's, you know, variations of that is certainly still alive today. So why is it still essential now that we hold fast to Jesus being of one substance with the Father?

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Matt
 Yeah, I gave a couple reasons. I don't know if, it's certainly not comprehensive,

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Matt
 but one of the reasons it was, you know, kind of modern heresies,

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Matt
 and I specifically discussed Mormonism. And I don't know if that was on the mind because I lived on the street from a Mormon, you know, worship center or whatever they call their buildings,

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Matt
 or if it's just because I just see it a lot, you know, they use Christian language and even in their name, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and they'll call themselves Christians. And I just get the sense, I just wonder how many of our brothers and sisters just kind of think of Mormons as like another denomination, just like Presbyterians or Methodists. And so I kind of wanted to set the record straight on that, that they've got a number of beliefs that are at variance from classical Christianity and first and foremost, or right front and center there would be their belief in the Trinity, which is different from our own. So that's one, but you know, there's other aspects that are relevant to today.

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Matt
 You know, I talked about, you know, maybe even being a little bolder in our witness, not having so much fear of man, if we were to remember that, hey, we're Christ followers, but we're following the God of the universe. I chose that because of verse 42 in chapter 12, how there were some maybe believers who didn't want to go public with that for fear of man.

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Matt
 But, you know, there's a lot, we get a lot, I mean, we're just scratching the surface on the Trinity and its contemporary relevance, and certainly just the fact that the Trinity is a relationship among Father, Son, and Spirit, and how relevant that is to us who are, we are so relational as human beings, and yeah, we could go on and on there, but that's probably enough for now.

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Brenton
 You have any thoughts, Matt?

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Clay
 Yeah, well, there is a lot more we could talk about,

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Clay
 but going back to your question,

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Clay
 what the Word of God actually says is that the Father and the Son are of one substance, as well as the Holy Spirit, so we want to be faithful to what the Word actually says.

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Clay
 I mean, that should be a given, but it's worth saying again. And then also, I think it's interesting that even, I'll call them the big three, Protestantism,

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Clay
 Catholicism, and then Eastern Orthodoxy, all of them have their roots in what we believe to be true about the Trinity. The similarities there are in lockstep for the most part, and it's just like pure Christianity to believe that our God is triune.

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Brenton
 Yeah, so on the other side of that, I guess, what are some implications of, like for instance, a oneness Pentecostal view of God? If you brought up Mormonism, what are the implications of believing something that we would consider heresy about the Trinity?

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Matt
 Well, Jesus says there's gonna come a day where the Father's gonna seek those who worship Him in spirit and truth.

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Matt
 He wants to be, He's revealed Himself to us. He's revealed Himself to us in His Word and through the capital W, Word, the incarnate, eternal Son of God, Jesus Christ, and He wants to be known and understood rightly and worshiped rightly,

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Matt
 and it's the Spirit who reveals God to us, and it's all according to the Father's purpose, so we could just keep talking in Trinitarian language, but He wants to be known, He's made Himself known, we have a responsibility to do our part with the elimination of the Spirit to understand and worship Him for who He truly is, and these other variations on that that you mentioned are just, they're not quite right, and it's just, it's wrong because He's God and He's worthy of being worshiped for who He is, and as Matt said, it's, you know, we believe what we believe because it's grounded in the Word,

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Matt
 and it's not just us here at Harmony Bible Church, but it, again, as Matt said, it goes back to the very earliest days of the Christian church and is shared by brothers and sisters of a lot of different denominations or branches of Christianity worldwide, with whom we have a lot of differences, but boy, we agree on the Trinity and always have, so it matters for a lot of reasons, but certainly those.

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Clay
 Yeah, and that's a great point. Some of us thinking about earlier was that, you know, somebody might think, well, it's, we might have different views on how to view Jesus or Trinity or not Trinity, but downstream is just these good morals, and we're making society better, et cetera, et cetera, but like Clay just said,

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Clay
 you've abandoned the true God because it's not ultimately about morals and our society being better or whatever. It's like, that's actually not at the center of what it means to be a Christian or a human being, who knows the living God, it's to know Him as He ought to be known, and as He's revealed Himself in Scripture and through His Son. And so, yeah, the emphasis can't be what's downstream. It's like, no, what's at the fountain of this, and it's knowing God rightly.

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Matt
 Amen, and I was also just thinking,

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Matt
 about the atonement, and so now we're getting into Christology, which is a little different, but related to discussing God and His nature as Trinity,

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Matt
 but, you know, Jesus is fully God and fully man, and both of those being true are very significant to the atonement because who but God could atone for the sins of the world, and who but God could live the righteous life that Jesus lived, and who but a man could be the representative of men,

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Matt
 and bear our sins and die in our place like we ought to. So, the fact that He's both fully God and fully man are very important, and they're important to the atonement, and if we don't have the atonement, then we don't have forgiveness, we don't have redemption, we don't have eternal life.

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Brenton
 Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, it's easy, maybe on kind of a cursory view of other beliefs to kind of brush over some of these differences, but then, you know, if you do some actual looking into what, you know, they have to do something with Jesus, right? And so, you know, in Mormonism, they believe that He's Satan's brother, and that has implications on the New Testament. Like there's so much of the New Testament that doesn't work with that. And you're right, as a big part of the atonement is Jesus being who Scripture says He is. And so there are a lot of downstream implications of that on our theology and yeah, on the Christian life for sure. So,

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Brenton
 you know, not only do we see the unity of the Trinity in this passage, but we also see distinct roles between the Father and the Son. So for example, in verse 49, Jesus says that the Father has given Him a commandment, and we see Jesus carrying out that commandment. And so how would you guys describe the roles we see in each member of the Trinity fulfilling in Scripture? Like what are the different person's roles in the Trinity?

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Matt
 Well, it's, we gotta remember too, that they're always one.

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Matt
 So it gets a little hard to wrap our minds around, but you know, the Father's purpose is the Son's purpose, is the Spirit's purpose. But you're right, we often, they are often described in Scripture, and we think of them as having some distinctive purposes or roles. And so the Father is often thought of as,

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Matt
 well, all three are thought of as like a creator. And so like the Father plans and purposes and wills and the Son,

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Matt
 it's through Him that the Father's plans and purposes and will is executed. And it's in the power of the Spirit that the Son does that. And so from through in are kind of words we use a lot when we talk about Father, Son and Spirit,

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Matt
 whether that's in creation or other acts.

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Matt
 I think about like on the cross, it was the Father's will that the Son would take on flesh and die in our place. And it was the Son's obedience to the Father's will that He did that. And it was in the power of the Spirit that He could, in the fullness of the Spirit, that He could live the perfect life that made Him a worthy sacrifice and follow through with that obedience, even to the very end. And then of course, being raised from the dead.

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Matt
 I also think of 1 Corinthians chapter two.

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Matt
 Paul talks about how the Spirit of God is like the mind or like the inner spirit of a person.

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Matt
 And he says, who knows the mind of a person like his inner spirit? And so too the spirit of who knows the mind of God, like the Spirit of God. And then the Spirit of God reveals God's mind and heart and will to us. And so the Spirit has this like revealing role, this like knowing and revealing role to us.

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Matt
 But then elsewhere he talks about the Spirit of God being the Spirit of Christ.

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Matt
 So we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. That's a particular role that He's also God the Son. He's the Spirit of Christ and He's God the Father too. They're all at one, indwelling us. We're the temple of God. So yeah, we can talk about and see some distinctiveness, but we keep needing to come back to the fact that they're one too.

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Clay
 Yeah, I don't think I can say it that well. I was just gonna say that this is not original to me, but I think it's helpful for simplicity to round this off is Augustine used language like this. John Calvin also did as well, but we come to the Father through the Son by the Spirit.

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Clay
 And I just, I think I heard Ligon Duncan at a conference, he's a pastor, speaker, author. He said that one time and I just found it very helpful. Thinking about, okay, there's three and one, what's going on here? I grew up hearing more about Jesus, I think, than the Father of the Holy Spirit, but just knowing as I read my Bible, yeah, it's like to the Father, I've been adopted into His family. The only way that's happened is because through the perfect Son and His atonement that,

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Clay
 and then the way this is able to happen effective is because the Holy Spirit's at work in my life and indwelling me now.

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Clay
 So yeah,

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Clay
 to the Father through the Son by the Spirit.

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Brenton
 Yeah, okay.

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Brenton
 So Matt, you spent time talking about the way that John uses the imagery of light versus darkness.

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Brenton
 And you actually mentioned that this is the 15th time that John's used this idea in his book.

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Brenton
 In this passage, Jesus says, He came as light so that people may not remain in darkness. How should that shape the way we view those around us who don't believe?

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Brenton
 Realizing that we've been carried out of darkness, they're still remaining in darkness.

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Clay
 Yeah, I think on one hand, it makes it simple for us to think about that only somebody who has believed in Jesus is in the light, everyone else is in the darkness, everyone else is in the darkness, and Jesus uses this symbolism for us to say, this is who I am, this is how to think about me and what it means to walk with me. So on one hand, it's simple, but on the other hand, it's complex because we can't in our own efforts,

[00:23:34:20 - 00:23:38:08]
Clay
 waddle over to the light. It's like, all right, I'm good now, now I'm in the light.

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Clay
 It's God draws us and Christ draws us and shines on us and we believe,

[00:23:48:16 - 00:23:51:12]
Clay
 and so I would just say as we interact with other people,

[00:23:54:02 - 00:24:15:06]
Clay
 a mistake I can make is thinking that my good, well-intended, nice neighbors who aren't Christians, they're a little bit closer to God than maybe a terrible neighbor would be that you don't like as contentious and- But you don't have any of those, right? Yeah, no, I've got a fantastic neighbors and they all listen to this podcast.

[00:24:16:15 - 00:24:16:15]
 (Both Laughing)

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Clay
 I don't know if that's true, but no, that is a mistake we can make is like, oh, those people are, they're so close and it's like, well, no, they're in the dark

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Clay
 because they're not living for Jesus and they have understood that, like he's the answer to everything. So I would just use language like that. I hope that's helpful to somebody is Jesus, yeah, he says, everybody's in the dark, I'm the light and I've come so that you would not stay in the dark and that's comforting.

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Brenton
 Yeah, and I think there's a hefty amount of mercy and grace on our side realizing that. I mean, I think it can be really frustrating to look at and someone that in our eyes has every opportunity, right, to repent or,

[00:25:09:01 - 00:25:23:17]
Brenton
 and we just don't see it happen and I think it's easy to kind of get cynical about those things where I think it's, as we keep this kind of imagery in mind, I think it can help really shape grace in ourselves toward others and patients.

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Brenton
 And I guess in that vein, how should this idea kind of shape the way we evangelize?

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Clay
 What do you mean by that? Just as we're...

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Brenton
 Yeah, I mean, given that there's kind of a binary situation here of like either you are in the light or you're in the darkness, I think if we look at this situation from maybe another denomination's viewpoint, right? It's kind of maybe everyone's kind of neutral or everyone has the opportunity to believe, how should this, taking this truth, how should that affect the way that we evangelize to people?

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Matt
 So with urgency, you know, there's a sense of urgency in our evangelism lest we be complacent, kind of like what Matt was talking about, and I'm so often guilty of that as well, just thinking like, oh, they're a pretty good guy,

[00:26:28:02 - 00:27:04:21]
Matt
 they're okay, but no, they're utterly lost and they're in darkness and they're blind to truth. Another thing is that our evangelism should be prayerful because we need to remember that it's only God who can reveal Himself to those who are blind, and so we need the Holy Spirit to give us that elimination. I mentioned 1 Corinthians 2, you know, Paul says those without the Spirit cannot understand spiritual things because they're spiritually discerned. It's the Spirit of God Himself who is able to know and then impart the things of God to others

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Matt
 and then I mentioned in my sermon 2 Corinthians 4, Paul says that it's God for God who said, "Let light shine out of darkness, "has shown in our hearts to give the light "of the knowledge of the glory of God "in the face of Jesus Christ." That's in verse six of chapter four of 2 Corinthians. So God did it, He's shown in our hearts to give us, because we needed it and He had to give it to us, the light of the knowledge of His glory and we see His glory in the face of Jesus Christ. So our evangelism needs to be urgent, it should be prayerful and it should be centered on the person and work of Jesus Christ because that is how we most clearly see the glory of God, it's in His person and His work. Yeah, yeah, that's really helpful.

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Brenton
 So Clay, you referenced verse 42 where we see people who believed in Jesus but did not confess it because they were afraid of the Pharisees and you kind of got ahead of me a little bit ago getting into this.

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Clay
 Sorry.

[00:28:08:11 - 00:28:24:07]
Brenton
 That's okay, forgive you. Why do you think, just in general, the fear of man is such a problem for us? Why, I don't know if that's a new kind of cultural thing or if that's something that's been around forever, apparently it's been around for a while.

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Brenton
 But why is that such an issue for us?

[00:28:27:20 - 00:28:42:15]
Matt
 Oh, well, maybe that gets back to our nature as relational beings, relational creatures. We so highly value and depend on relationships and so it can be extremely uncomfortable

[00:28:43:16 - 00:28:49:18]
Matt
 for there to be any kind of disruption or tension in those relationships and it can even be threatening.

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Matt
 So these are certain religious authorities that believed in Jesus but they didn't wanna make that known because they didn't wanna be put out of the synagogue. Well, that's their whole community, that's their whole way of life and to just be,

[00:29:06:15 - 00:29:09:03]
Matt
 just to become outcast, to be kicked out of that,

[00:29:10:06 - 00:29:11:10]
Matt
 that's a huge deal.

[00:29:12:11 - 00:29:20:15]
Matt
 Maybe something that we can't even quite relate to today here with all the freedoms we have in our modern and even largely secular society.

[00:29:22:03 - 00:29:47:10]
Matt
 But just think about your closest group of friends or your tight-knit family. You think about converts today on the other side of the world or maybe here, coming from like a Muslim background and it is not okay to convert from Islam to Christianity and to go public with that can be very dangerous for them.

[00:29:48:16 - 00:30:00:17]
Matt
 It can be very dangerous physically and it can certainly really wreck their family relationships, which is not only their social network but also sometimes their physical safety and security network as well.

[00:30:02:05 - 00:30:26:20]
Matt
 Just, it can have huge implications. Maybe for us, kinda living day to day in Southeast Iowa, West Central Illinois, maybe it is more about though, that just that kind of relational discomfort and tension and not wanting to offend, not wanting to upset, not wanting there to be distance, kind of wanting people to like you. Those are the things that come to my mind because those are the things that I feel. So, yeah.

[00:30:26:20 - 00:30:41:07]
Brenton
 Now, I think that's helpful kind of put in that in context of John 12 to like what the actual implications would have been of being kicked out of the synagogue. Like that's a big deal for someone in that context.

[00:30:43:02 - 00:30:48:06]
Brenton
 Yeah, the examples, I mean, living in the Midwest where we live,

[00:30:49:09 - 00:31:02:17]
Brenton
 they're uncomfortable, there's things, there's implications of that but probably not as big of ones as we read other places.

[00:31:02:17 - 00:31:26:22]
Matt
 Yeah, and something that can help with the motivation there, it gets back to what Matt said earlier about seeing people as lost, seeing people as in the darkness. So I can just think about some people maybe in my social circles a little bit that don't know Jesus and they're good people, they're nice people. And I wanna be their friend and I want them to like me and I kinda wanna make a connection and just kinda be like, I want them to see that I'm a regular guy.

[00:31:28:06 - 00:31:57:10]
Matt
 But boy, that's not a bad thing, but I can't let that be the central motive behind my relationship with them or how I see them. Because if I keep it at that, like, hey, just like me and just see me as real and as normal and I can be your friend, but it stops there, they're still lost, they're still in the darkness. And literally their eternal destiny is at stake. And ultimately that's up to God, but maybe He would use me and I need to be open to that and prayerful about that.

[00:31:57:10 - 00:32:45:10]
Clay
 Sure. Yeah, just to add to that, I do totally agree, Brenton, that other parts of the world, different contexts, Jesus' own context, there's a bigger deal. Your family disowning you, getting kicked out of the common place of worship, et cetera. But just kinda like Clay said, I'm thinking about my own testimony. I started following the Lord seriously towards the end of high school. And there is this break away from my old friend group that I had to make. But the most difficult hurdle was really fear of man. Like, what are they gonna think about me? What's gonna happen if I break loose? And that like fear of not being accepted and all those things, those anxieties that come along with it. And so I think every believer really has kind of a micro experience of this in some way.

[00:32:46:14 - 00:32:48:05]
Clay
 And, but the beauty is,

[00:32:49:13 - 00:32:55:11]
Clay
 the deeper we go with the Lord and in His word and experiencing Him, He accepts us.

[00:32:56:11 - 00:33:02:22]
Clay
 So much better than the world ever could or any friend group ever could or family. And that's just proven over and over again to the gospels.

[00:33:04:05 - 00:33:04:10]
Matt
 Yeah.

[00:33:04:10 - 00:33:27:14]
Brenton
 Yeah, I can say from my own experience that that is far more true of me than I would ever wanna admit. And I think that that's probably true for a lot of people. I know that the fear of man drives a lot of decisions that get made and can pile on a lot of guilt and shame too.

[00:33:29:00 - 00:33:47:03]
Brenton
 So I guess, so continuing with that, Clay, you connected overcoming fear of man to remembering that Jesus really is God and He's one with the Father. So how does that truth like practically strengthen our boldness as Christians in today's culture?

[00:33:48:13 - 00:34:02:00]
Matt
 Yeah, that in my witness, I'm bearing witness to the one thing that is ultimate, the one thing that is eternal, the one being who is worthy of everything,

[00:34:03:07 - 00:34:15:20]
Matt
 God, God Himself. And I call myself a Christian, that means Christ follower. I'm following the God of the universe. I'm His ambassador, we're ambassadors for Christ and God's making His appeal through us.

[00:34:17:12 - 00:34:20:06]
Matt
 And so it's what a privilege, what an opportunity,

[00:34:21:21 - 00:34:33:20]
Matt
 what a task He's called us to. And if, yeah, but just remembering that like, hey, God is behind me, if God, and like, you know, Romans 8.31, if God is for us, who can be against us?

[00:34:35:15 - 00:35:07:18]
Matt
 So yeah, just remembering that and kind of loading yourself up with those truths, I think can help the boldness, you know, if you wanna ask somebody what they believe about Jesus, or Jesus, or hey, can I pray for you? Or, hey, you know, I go to this church, or I follow this guy, this person, this God, you know, like when we really believe that it really is real and eternal and He's all powerful, He's all God, and He's in us and He's behind us and He's for us and He's working through us, maybe that'll help us overcome the fear man a little bit.

[00:35:11:11 - 00:35:13:14]
Brenton
 All right, any other thoughts to wrap this up?

[00:35:15:08 - 00:35:15:21]
Brenton
 Nothing else.

[00:35:15:21 - 00:35:21:14]
Matt
 It was fun, I like doing this with companies, it was good doing this with Matt.

[00:35:21:14 - 00:35:24:22]
Brenton
 Yeah, it was like what, two weeks ago you were here? Yeah, I was by myself.

[00:35:26:08 - 00:35:28:07]
Brenton
 All by yourself. That's your ordination all over again.

[00:35:30:00 - 00:35:36:04]
Brenton
 All right, well, if you do have any questions, ask at furtherpodcast.com and we'll talk to you next week.

[00:35:36:04 - 00:35:37:16]
 (Upbeat Music)