Brenton
 Welcome back to Further. I am Brenton Grimm. Welcome back, Chris. How you doing? I'm pretty good. Yeah, how about you? Yeah, good.

[00:02:56:20 - 00:03:00:06]
Brenton
 Did you happen to see anything on TV last night? Anything interesting?

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Chris
 Oh, yeah, I guess I was not even thinking about that. It was--

[00:03:04:17 - 00:03:08:01]
Chris
 it seemed like a bad dream. So that

[00:03:08:01 - 00:03:09:12]
Brenton
 was a weird game.

[00:03:09:12 - 00:03:33:23]
Chris
 Yeah. Well, and I didn't get home until 930, 10 o'clock after an elder meeting. So I was going through the commercials really quickly. And then it looked like things were going to be great. And then it's not a good way to end a long day. Yeah, no, that's fair. But it's the bears. So what do we expect?

[00:03:33:23 - 00:03:36:22]
Brenton
 We're going to have to wash Caleb Williams' feet soon. Yeah.

[00:03:38:04 - 00:03:39:11]
Brenton
 All right. Well,

[00:03:40:17 - 00:03:45:21]
Brenton
 you joked about an upcoming foot washing service we're going to have.

[00:03:47:03 - 00:03:54:08]
Brenton
 I'm glad it was a joke. But it got me thinking a little bit. Why don't we view foot washing as an ongoing ordinance?

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Chris
 Well, we have two ordinances that we practice. And we believe that Jesus instituted baptism and the Lord's Supper. And I think the key in that is that it was-- these two were instituted by Jesus. And we do not believe that Jesus is actually instituting something that we are to continue to do. The point is we are going to see this Sunday is that we're to serve one another.

[00:04:26:08 - 00:04:55:15]
Chris
 And we don't believe that He's saying specifically, serve one another through having foot washing services. So in the other gospels, we actually don't see this in John, but in the other gospels. And Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians as well that Jesus literally instituted the Lord's Supper, that this is something that His Church is to continue to give themselves to. And we also know, of course, at the end of the Gospel of Matthew that we're to baptize people.

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Chris
 And so aside from that, we just don't see any other ordinances or some other denominations. We'll call them sacraments that you're just supposed to practice.

[00:05:10:13 - 00:05:19:08]
Brenton
 So you would expect to see an explicit continue doing this in the future. Fair enough.

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Chris
 And we'd also would expect to see in the rest of the New Testament some reference to it.

[00:05:29:07 - 00:05:54:23]
Chris
 This is the only place that we see it in the Bible at all. And again, Jesus doesn't go on and says, you ought to also wash each other's feet in the sense of like, it's clear that He's talking about service because that's what He's going to talk about. And so that could be in a multitude of ways as we talked about it a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 3
 Yeah.

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Chris
 OK.

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Brenton
 When setting the scene for this passage, you said we have to do away with the idea of a stoic, unemotional Jesus.

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Brenton
 Why do you think it's important for us to recognize that Jesus isn't stoic, that He actually has emotions and expresses them?

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Chris
 Well, first of all, because we want to be faithful to what we see in the Scripture and what the gospels tell us about Jesus. So that is first and really foundational. But more than that, He is fully human.

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Chris
 And so if we are willing to admit it, humans, all of us are emotional and in different ways and express them different ways for sure. But it's also very important for us to affirm that Jesus is emotional and that He had many of the same experiences that we do.

[00:07:01:14 - 00:07:42:11]
Chris
 I think it's also important because it helps us to recognize that He does truly understand what it is like to be us. And that's particularly true when it comes to our hurt and sadness and loneliness. And we've got to be careful here with Jesus in terms of anxiety and fear. And so I don't want to just-- that needs to be qualified. I'll just maybe be clear. But it is clear that Jesus, in the guard of the Gethsemane, He was deeply, deeply burdened about what He was about to undergo.

[00:07:43:14 - 00:08:08:22]
Chris
 And so we got to be careful again about what label we put on that motion and the feeling that Jesus was going through. But it was certainly a somewhat, if not very much overwhelming to when He's literally sweating drops of blood. So I think it's important for us to--

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Chris
 Hebrews talks about He can identify with us and He knows what it's like to fuel human experience except without sin.

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Chris
 And so I think that that's very, very important. And it's very, very important as well because I think if we're really going to understand His love for us, if we're really going to draw near to Him and Him and the Father,

[00:08:39:20 - 00:08:46:14]
Chris
 then our emotions must be engaged in that. We are emotional beings.

[00:08:47:19 - 00:09:04:21]
Chris
 And it's not just about a head knowledge or, again, this stoicism about life. Stoicism about life, I think, was actually very unhealthy because it fails to deal with the realities of life in the fallen world.

[00:09:06:19 - 00:09:53:21]
Chris
 And it leaves us unable to connect with ourselves, with other people, and with God. And so we've talked about this in the past. And we could talk about it a lot more. But I think it's very, very important. And then I would just add one other thing that I was trying to get at at the beginning of the message when I was talking about, let's get in the room here. It's like, let's try as much as we can not to be detached from-- this is not just a historical account of, these things happened and, OK. But no, it was like, OK, it can help us to engage in the monumental things that are going on in this just few hours.

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Chris
 I think it can help us to just, this is it. I mean, right here, this is defining in a way that no other 24-hour period in history has been or will be.

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Brenton
 Yeah, right.

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Brenton
 Yeah,

[00:10:17:17 - 00:10:27:10]
Brenton
 so I may be asking you to speculate here, but why do you think Jesus is talking to the disciples so cryptically?

[00:10:28:13 - 00:10:35:14]
Brenton
 They're hours away from his crucifixion. Why not just spell it out for them?

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Chris
 It's a great question. I think you can do a little more than speculate.

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Chris
 First of all, Jesus had been spoken very plainly at times, and they just didn't get it. So the idea here that if he just would have said it to him, they'd have gotten it, I think is probably not the case.

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Chris
 I think Jesus says, Peter, like what I'm doing right now, you don't understand, but you'll understand afterward.

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Chris
 We shouldn't interpret this in some way

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Chris
 as the Lord allows us at times to go through what the ancients have called the dark night of the soul.

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Chris
 And in other words, these periods where we don't know what's going on, we don't understand, it's hard, it's difficult. And Jesus very,

[00:11:45:16 - 00:11:53:05]
Chris
 like he could have through the Spirit, given these disciples the understanding of what he was talking about.

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Chris
 But it would seem to me like even Peter,

[00:12:02:01 - 00:12:07:22]
Chris
 Jesus says to him, Satan has asked to sift you.

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Chris
 So there's something else going on, like there's all kinds of things.

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Chris
 But literally, apparently there's a conversation between the Father and Satan, there's some communication. I'm just saying that's what Jesus says, Satan asks.

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Chris
 And Jesus says, I pray for you that after you've basically fallen,

[00:12:32:02 - 00:12:49:06]
Chris
 you'll be able to restore your brother. And so Jesus could have prevented that, right? But he allows Satan to bring Peter some harm, how that works, I don't know.

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Chris
 But he did it because he wanted to grow and to use Peter in a very unique and special way. And Peter needed that hard time, that dark night of the soul in order to become the man that Jesus intended for him to become. And we went out like that, we went out and understand all of that. But it's actually fairly common testimony of Scripture. You talk about Job,

[00:13:17:21 - 00:13:21:09]
Chris
 maybe one of the first examples. But Abraham,

[00:13:22:14 - 00:13:32:06]
Chris
 I mean, Joseph, I mean, honestly, you can go through most of the, what we call the Old Testament saints. And there was a time where the Lord took them through a dark valley or two.

[00:13:32:06 - 00:13:32:22]
Speaker 4
 For sure.

[00:13:32:22 - 00:13:39:22]
Chris
 So that kind of would be my best shot at that.

[00:13:39:22 - 00:14:00:19]
Brenton
 Yeah, I think maybe from a practical perspective, like what would have been the 11 disciples' response to knowing that Judas was going to betray him, right? Like they likely would have tried to stop that situation, but there was obviously purpose in what Judas did too.

[00:14:00:19 - 00:14:34:23]
Chris
 But yeah. Yeah. And I think for Peter, he just needed to be humble. I mean, it's pretty obvious to see. And you say that about Peter, that's really true. It's definitely been true for me and will continue to be, is like if they had gotten it, like it'd been really easy for them to like, "Yeah, okay, we're special." And by the end of these 24 hours, and for Peter, we'll carry on to after the resurrection, we'll get to John 21 where Jesus restores him. And he's a different man.

[00:14:36:10 - 00:14:43:08]
Chris
 And that's before the Holy Spirit comes. And then he's even a better man after that, but he's different.

[00:14:44:23 - 00:14:53:09]
Chris
 Yeah. Now, Paul's another example. I mean, the Damascus Road and all of that, he needed to be humbled. And yeah, so he's a blind.

[00:14:53:09 - 00:14:56:03]
Brenton
 Yeah, he's almost like Jesus has intentions in what he does. Yeah.

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Chris
 Well, I mean, I think the encouragement for everybody listening should be like God has good intentions for his people, even when it seems like maybe he's killing us, so to speak.

[00:15:13:09 - 00:15:37:08]
Chris
 Even where it is one of those dark nights or dark weeks or sometimes months and even years at times, people go through that. The Lord in the dark is forming and growing something in us that would not have come about if we hadn't gone through those difficulties.

[00:15:37:08 - 00:15:39:00]
Speaker 3
 Yeah, very true.

[00:15:41:14 - 00:15:49:07]
Brenton
 You said that Jesus is not just loving, but he himself is love. What do you mean by that?

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Chris
 Well, I'm just quoting 1 John 4, 8 and 16. But to go a little bit further, since that is the name of our podcast here. Go further. Okay.

[00:16:04:18 - 00:16:08:05]
Chris
 I think it is his very essence.

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Chris
 So it's not just an attribute among many others.

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Chris
 It has a lot of amazing attributes, but this is at the essence of who God is and in everything he does, he does in love.

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Chris
 He does in love for amongst the members of the Godhead, the father loves the son, son loves the spirit, spirit loves the son and the father. They've always existed in a relationship of love and always will. They made the world out of love and on and on. So whether God's, when he's creating, when he's redeeming, when he's disciplining, when he is actually displaying his wrath, it's an act of love.

[00:17:02:03 - 00:17:23:11]
Chris
 So that's part of it. We also have where God demonstrates his love for us and while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. So we see how loving he is and that he would give his most treasured, not possessions, not the word, but relationship, the thing that most treasured him, his son.

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Chris
 We see it in the fact that, you know,

[00:17:32:01 - 00:17:57:00]
Chris
 God calls us to love as we have been loved. So and the story of the Bible is repeatedly of how God loves and is loving and calls us into that love both relationally and may say ethically in terms of the way that we act.

[00:17:58:09 - 00:18:07:22]
Brenton
 You said that he even shows his love in the way he displays his wrath. What do you, what does that mean? Like how does, how does that play out?

[00:18:09:04 - 00:18:24:16]
Chris
 Well he punishes sin and, but maybe that's maybe not terribly helpful to say, like maybe hard, like what, how's that love? Maybe the other way to talk about it is,

[00:18:25:20 - 00:18:35:09]
Chris
 you know, if I love somebody, I'm going to hate the thing that brings them harm.

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Chris
 And that just, you know, we try all that we can today to separate love and wrath.

[00:18:48:12 - 00:18:57:23]
Chris
 Right? You can't be loving and wrathful. And if you love your kids, you're going to hate the things that do harm to them.

[00:19:00:22 - 00:19:20:10]
Chris
 But and sin is what harm brings harm to the people that God has created and that God loves. And so God must do something about sin or he's not loving. Yeah. So there has to be something, he has to do something to put away sin.

[00:19:21:10 - 00:19:23:05]
Chris
 And the amazing thing is that,

[00:19:24:05 - 00:19:49:07]
Chris
 and Paul talks about this in Romans chapter three, one of the most important passages in the entire Bible is where God is just and the justifier of those who have faith in Jesus Christ. God is, and what that means is that God is loving and wrathful at the same time. He just wrathful, like he's going to punish evil. He's going to make sure that what has been wrong is made right.

[00:19:50:10 - 00:20:06:21]
Chris
 And in order to do that though, he is loving in the sense that he's the justifier of those who have faith in Jesus and he actually takes the penalty, the wrath of directed at sin,

[00:20:08:15 - 00:20:20:00]
Chris
 sinners in sinners place, those who have faith in Christ. I didn't maybe explain that terribly well, but hopefully everybody gets what I'm saying there. So yeah, have I answered the question?

[00:20:20:00 - 00:20:55:01]
Brenton
 Yeah. Let's go at it from a little bit different angle. So oftentimes, you know, we'll hear people say that God is all loving. A lot of times this happens in kind of an objection to Christian theology where, you know, an all loving God wouldn't send someone to hell or something. But also I think it just gets conflated with some of the, uh, the omnis of God. So like, you know, God is all powerful. He's all knowing he's all present. And I think the attribute of all loving gets thrown in with that. Do you think that that's an accurate way to describe God?

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Chris
 Well, no. And, and one of the things, uh, just to refer to what we were talking about a few minutes ago, um,

[00:21:05:23 - 00:21:24:06]
Chris
 love is in, is different than all knowing knowledge and, um, all powerful omniscient in the sense that those are not at God's essence. God is those things, but, but they are not, um,

[00:21:25:21 - 00:21:30:20]
Chris
 uh, his very, very essence. And so, um, with that said though,

[00:21:32:06 - 00:21:35:10]
Chris
 God is, um,

[00:21:36:17 - 00:21:51:18]
Chris
 all loving if we understand it in, in the right way. Okay. What we often understood is, is that he's loving in absence of any, anything else in terms of what we were just like wrath.

[00:21:52:19 - 00:22:11:09]
Chris
 Like the, this, when people say he's all loving, that means that he doesn't hate sin. He doesn't like, he would never send anybody to hell for, um, refusing to trust in him or for, for, you know, for their sin or anything like that. And again, that goes back to where we just talked about it. It was like God,

[00:22:12:12 - 00:22:31:17]
Chris
 his, his, his love, his all lovingness, so to speak, requires that he also be, be, be wrathful. So, um, yes, a lot of times people say all loving, they, they mean like he just loves, um, without any other condition to that at all.

[00:22:31:17 - 00:22:32:13]
Speaker 4
 Yeah. Yeah.

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Brenton
 I mean, there's, I think it's, it's hard to read scripture in some ways and come away with that, like God loves everything equally. Right. Sure. He hates a lot of things.

[00:22:43:21 - 00:23:04:05]
Chris
 And so, and he doesn't look, we know that he has a special love for his children. For sure. Yep. Um, and, and that like, does God love, uh, some people more than others? Great question. How do you, how do you answer that question?

[00:23:04:05 - 00:23:29:18]
Brenton
 I would say yes. I think it's clear with the way that he deals with his people that, you know, and even, you know, we could go to Romans nine here, Jacob, I loved, Esau, I hated. Like there is a difference in the way that he treats people. Um, and he doesn't show the same favor to, we see that with, with the nation of Israel too, right? He showed favor to them because they were his chosen people.

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Chris
 Yeah. And just to clarify, when you, when you're quoting that passage and Jacob, I loved, Esau, I hated. It's not that God hates any, anyone, right?

[00:23:39:22 - 00:23:56:01]
Brenton
 Yeah. I mean, I, I would, you know, even in this passage we're looking at like with how he treats Judas, like there, there is an aspect and we'll get to it a little bit of loving your enemy. Mm-hmm.

[00:23:57:07 - 00:24:11:22]
Brenton
 And in some way I think God does love all of his creation. I think there is a sense in which that's true, but to say that, you know, how he feels about Judas is vastly different than how he feels about the other 11.

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Chris
 Right? Yeah. I don't know that I'd use the word feel, I'd use relate. Okay. Fair.

[00:24:20:23 - 00:24:44:21]
Chris
 And, and the reason I bring up the Jacob, Esau, I don't, for God to love the world. And that, that he gave his, his only son. So he, so he, now then here in John three, having loved those who were in the world, he loved them to the very end. So his own, which, which he's separating. John three, I forgot to love the world, everybody.

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Chris
 Now here in, in, in John 13, it's, he has a special love for those of his who are his own, who are in the world. Yeah. Verse one is very, very specific here. So, so that, I think that that's where like God just has a special, a special love for his own. Yeah. That is, that is different from his love for those who are, who are not his own. Sure.

[00:25:09:21 - 00:25:11:07]
Brenton
 Sure. And maybe,

[00:25:12:13 - 00:25:34:12]
Brenton
 maybe just going back to this conversation of, you know, God being love instead of just like having love for his people, it might be helpful to stay that like he is in the same way that he is good. Like he is our standard of what good is right. In the same way he's, he's our standard of what love is. Would that be a helpful way of saying that? Sure.

[00:25:34:12 - 00:25:35:04]
Speaker 4
 Yeah.

[00:25:35:04 - 00:25:39:12]
Chris
 Sure. Yeah. I mean, there's many different aspects to God being love.

[00:25:40:15 - 00:25:53:00]
Chris
 Sure. And that would, yeah, I think that would be a good one. One of the reasons I'm just kind of even going back to this is like, it's, I think it's really important for us to think like God, does God hate people?

[00:25:54:01 - 00:26:34:09]
Chris
 And it, not in the way that people would often say they might hear us. Yeah. When, when, just when we're saying that and, but it is important and people can have a hard time with this is that God does love his elect is chosen. And that's, that's actually, we go back to, to Deuteronomy and God tells the people of Israel, I loved you because I loved you. In other words, his love is a, is a choosing love as well. He chose them because he loved them. Well, why did he love them? Because he chose to do so. Right.

[00:26:35:11 - 00:26:37:16]
Chris
 And he doesn't do that for everybody.

[00:26:39:06 - 00:26:47:20]
Brenton
 Yeah. Yeah. I think there, there is some maybe Old Testament language we would need to deal with in some of that. And I'm willing to, you know,

[00:26:50:00 - 00:27:25:19]
Brenton
 accept what you're saying. I mean, there are examples of like in the Psalms where David's talking of like, God hates the wicked people. And is that just a, like you say, a way of relating to those people, like in the same way that Jacob and Esau, like the way that he treated those two brothers was vastly different. So is that a way of explaining, you know, how they were treated by God or does he actually, are there certain people that he does actually like abhor, right? So there's, there's just a lot of things that I think would need wrestling. Sure.

[00:27:25:19 - 00:27:31:00]
Chris
 But yeah. And, and the Jacob and Esau one is interesting because God,

[00:27:32:11 - 00:27:41:23]
Chris
 everything else we see about God's relationship with Esau is not that he has hatred towards them or of horrors. I mean, he actually, actually blesses him too.

[00:27:44:04 - 00:28:00:13]
Chris
 And, and so then you can go even earlier to Isaac and Ishmael and, you know, Hagar and he's the God who sees me and like, God tells I'm going to bless Ishmael. And so God still does bless him, but he chose.

[00:28:01:22 - 00:28:17:06]
Chris
 I mean, it's the love hate thing just played out earlier than the Jacob Esau thing. And so, yeah, I think it's hard to wrestle with those. I abhor the wicked and, and it's very clear there too. Yeah.

[00:28:17:06 - 00:28:31:01]
Brenton
 Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You, you pointed out that Jesus washed Judas feet as well. And we, we talked about this a little bit, but he did that in spite of the fact that he had already made the decision to betray Jesus.

[00:28:32:04 - 00:28:37:01]
Brenton
 You asked the question, can you imagine doing what Jesus did here?

[00:28:38:05 - 00:28:54:01]
Brenton
 What, what would you hope that we would take from this question? Like, you know, obviously there's the love your enemies side of this, but what, what should we take from Jesus stooping down to the level to wash the feet of someone who's about to betray him?

[00:28:55:09 - 00:29:06:21]
Chris
 Well, I hit on this a little bit on Sunday and we're going to come back to it again this week is just recognizing that Jesus is, he's just great.

[00:29:09:02 - 00:29:09:07]
Chris
 I mean,

[00:29:10:10 - 00:29:23:18]
Chris
 and I use the word great in terms, this is like, he's glorious. It's like, it's like, we can never ever have a big enough, grand enough view of who Jesus is.

[00:29:25:12 - 00:29:48:10]
Chris
 And I truly believe that the greater that we see him to be, the more that we will live our lives in obedience to him. And that, and so I just going to keep just bringing, bringing this out.

[00:29:49:11 - 00:30:03:07]
Chris
 I mean, if much of our lives as Christians is determined by how big of a view of God and I think specifically Jesus, we have.

[00:30:05:03 - 00:30:14:14]
Chris
 And so seeing how he does something here that I don't know if any of us can imagine doing,

[00:30:16:23 - 00:30:20:02]
Chris
 it's just my point is like, okay,

[00:30:21:21 - 00:30:29:08]
Chris
 look at him. And then though the follow-up is as we look at him, that's actually where we find the power to do as he has done.

[00:30:29:08 - 00:30:29:22]
Speaker 3
 Yeah.

[00:30:29:22 - 00:30:34:19]
Chris
 And so you mentioned loving your enemies. Jesus, sort of not love your enemies. Yeah.

[00:30:36:04 - 00:30:46:20]
Chris
 Okay. Well, how do we do that? Do we do it? And this is really, I think key to my approach to the Christian life.

[00:30:48:22 - 00:31:28:15]
Chris
 We get the power to do what Jesus called us to do, not by simply mustering it up or just by like, "Oh, I gotta, I gotta go for it. I gotta do it." Or by beating ourselves up for not doing it or both and. We get it from looking at Jesus and just being awed by him. And really, I hate to use this terminology because it's so misused, but by falling deeper in love with him, grow and fall, let's not use that, fall in love. Let's say like growing deeper, a deeper love for him.

[00:31:29:18 - 00:31:36:09]
Chris
 And because the more that we love him, and Jesus is gonna say this, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." Love your enemies is a commandment.

[00:31:38:03 - 00:31:41:08]
Chris
 It's not a, it's not a like, this is a suggestion,

[00:31:42:20 - 00:31:51:15]
Chris
 but how do we, how does that happen? Well, because we love it and you'll never love him if you don't see how great he is.

[00:31:51:15 - 00:32:08:07]
Brenton
 Yeah. Yeah. And I think maybe it'd be relevant to go to Ephesians 2 also that we were once enemies of God. And so, you know, he showed love for us while we were enemies. Yeah. So extending that is...

[00:32:08:07 - 00:32:11:21]
Chris
 If you're not careful, you're gonna get me preaching this Sunday's message.

[00:32:11:21 - 00:32:15:19]
Brenton
 Well, we can't have that. Then we'd have nothing to talk about next week.

[00:32:16:19 - 00:32:17:04]
Brenton
 All right.

[00:32:18:17 - 00:32:29:10]
Brenton
 Last one here, you drew out the distinction between the once for all cleansing we receive in Christ and the daily cleansing we need as we walk through a sinful world.

[00:32:31:04 - 00:32:47:21]
Brenton
 You took this from verse 10 where Jesus said, "The one who has bathed does not need to wash except for his feet, but is completely clean." Can you kind of, I know you did on Sunday, but can you briefly explain what you think Jesus is trying to communicate here?

[00:32:50:11 - 00:33:03:07]
Chris
 Well, it is certainly a complicated passage, especially on the surface. And so it takes some really careful, what I would say, kind of exegesis.

[00:33:06:04 - 00:33:21:08]
Chris
 But I believe that in verse 8, you know, Jesus is saying that, "You have to be washed by me." Because you have to have your sins washed away through faith and by death and resurrection.

[00:33:24:11 - 00:33:36:07]
Chris
 And again, remember, Jesus has said, "Peter, you're not gonna understand this now, but afterward you understand." So that's kind of a key interpretive principle here with this passage.

[00:33:37:10 - 00:33:37:22]
Chris
 We have the...

[00:33:39:03 - 00:34:04:06]
Chris
 They didn't know what was going on, but we can look back. And then in verse 10, when Peter responds with his exuberance, I think Jesus uses that exuberance to teach kind of a follow-up point is that, "You're already clean." Now, it's interesting. We could have a long discussion about...

[00:34:06:22 - 00:34:15:05]
Chris
 Is Jesus talking about like that, had that literally become true? Or is He talking about like, "You're already clean because I've chosen you."

[00:34:16:09 - 00:34:29:08]
Chris
 Okay? So that's another discussion. But the point is that they had been washed clean because they trusted in Jesus.

[00:34:31:04 - 00:34:56:07]
Chris
 And so He says, "You're already completely clean." Now, it's interesting, like there is a textual debate over whether that should accept for His feet actually be in there. If you note it in maybe in the footnotes and there's people on either side, if it's not there, it actually makes it much easier.

[00:34:57:17 - 00:35:06:04]
Chris
 But it seems to me that it... And the ESV translators have put it in there, or not put it in there, they've left it in there.

[00:35:07:06 - 00:35:30:18]
Chris
 And I believe that that's probably, it should be in there, which is hence the interpretation that I gave that what Jesus is saying is like, "You're clean once for all because that happened one time, nothing can change that, but you are going to sin." And we give examples of that just specifically from Peter and Galatians. You see his interaction with Paul.

[00:35:32:06 - 00:35:35:11]
Chris
 There are Paul's treatment of something that Peter had done.

[00:35:36:14 - 00:35:47:01]
Chris
 And so we need to confess and we need to repent. We need to turn. And the New Testament is full of talking about repentance for believers, repenting and turning from our sins.

[00:35:48:09 - 00:36:31:10]
Chris
 And so, yeah, so Jesus is saying, "Hey, you're completely clean, but you still are going to get dirty sometimes. And so you need me to give you a renewed cleansing." And I think that's where the walking, like the illustration, your feet are dirty because you've been walking here, but you took a bath before you came. So you don't like that. That did you for the day, but your feet still need to be clean. Christ, when we're saved, we're cleaned for a life like forever, but there are times where we're going to need to go to Him for His cleansing of our sins.

[00:36:31:10 - 00:37:03:01]
Brenton
 Yeah. Yeah. As I was looking through this section, what came to mind is kind of the Catholic view of their theology dictates that they keep up with the sacrament of penance, which is confession essentially as a means to stay in right standing with God. Whereas like Protestants, we believe that the practice of confession is still vital to the Christian life, but it never changes our standing before God.

[00:37:05:01 - 00:37:14:23]
Brenton
 As we think about the assurance of our faith, what role does daily confession play in it? Like what's the right way to distinguish between these two beliefs?

[00:37:14:23 - 00:37:20:10]
Chris
 Yeah, I think the best way to come at this is probably talking about it in terms of relationship.

[00:37:23:02 - 00:37:28:22]
Chris
 And so, you know, maybe I'll just use the parent child analogy.

[00:37:30:16 - 00:37:31:11]
Chris
 There's nothing,

[00:37:33:02 - 00:37:38:05]
Chris
 when my children, they were conceived and then obviously born,

[00:37:39:13 - 00:37:48:13]
Chris
 they became my children. There's literally nothing, like there's nothing that can be done by me or by them to change that.

[00:37:49:20 - 00:38:05:00]
Chris
 Now, there have been times over the years, just a few, just a few where our relationship has been strained. Tell us about them. No, I would not do that to my children.

[00:38:08:02 - 00:38:19:14]
Chris
 And so there's been a need for, and the analogy here will break down, okay? Yeah, sure. A little bit, because it's not always been my children who have done the wrong.

[00:38:20:20 - 00:38:23:01]
Chris
 It's oftentimes been me.

[00:38:25:21 - 00:38:39:08]
Chris
 And so maybe I'll just use it to get my children out of it. Interestingly, my dad was here on Sunday. So like there's nothing, he's my dad. Like that he's always going to be.

[00:38:41:03 - 00:38:43:10]
Chris
 But there have been times where I've,

[00:38:45:07 - 00:39:25:13]
Chris
 especially when I was a young child, like teenager probably more, where I've done things I shouldn't and I've needed to make things right with him. So my standing before him has never changed. But the relationship has been hindered because of something that I have done. And so our relationship with God, like our standing, we're still his children and his dearly loved children. And he's still, because of Jesus, he sees us and he's pleased with us and he accepts us. And our standing is like holy and righteous in his sight. Our actual lives at times are not holy and righteous.

[00:39:26:17 - 00:39:56:15]
Chris
 And so that impacts our relationship with him. And David gives a great example of this in Psalm 51 after his sin with Bathsheba. And he's just like, he wants to be restored to the Lord. And so it's a relational, like it's in, and he's sinned, like in at least against you and against you only have I sinned. Now we look at that like, didn't he sin against Bathsheba? Yeah, didn't he sin against Uriah? Yeah, didn't he sin against the whole nation of Israel? Yes.

[00:39:57:15 - 00:40:23:14]
Chris
 But the issue is my relationship with God. And so I'm going on in this because I think it's really, really important. I think it's hard to understand, but we do need to parse out that like our standing as his children and as holy and righteous and blameless before him, that is the way he sees us.

[00:40:25:08 - 00:40:26:20]
Chris
 But when we choose the sin,

[00:40:27:21 - 00:40:30:18]
Chris
 that relationship is hindered.

[00:40:32:04 - 00:40:48:06]
Chris
 And David also will say, if I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me. In other words, like if we're holding onto that and not hear us in terms of like, the relationship is going to be hindered in some way until we repent and confess.

[00:40:49:10 - 00:40:53:01]
Chris
 And the great thing is that we can always know that whenever we do,

[00:40:54:10 - 00:41:05:22]
Chris
 he's right there. And the parable of the prodigal son, you know, we got to love that. The prodigal son runs off. He loses everything.

[00:41:06:23 - 00:41:15:07]
Chris
 He greatly sins against his father. And then Jesus says, as he's telling the parable, he's in the pig pen and he came to himself.

[00:41:17:11 - 00:41:35:20]
Chris
 There's a recognition of the sin and then he started home, which means he's turning and he's going home and he's repenting. And what does the father do? The father says, when he sees them a far way off, he runs to them.

[00:41:37:16 - 00:41:51:14]
Chris
 And I think if like, I'm even a little bit feeling a little emotion in me right now is like that is the father for every one of his children. It's like that guy, he's still his son.

[00:41:53:02 - 00:41:56:19]
Chris
 And literally, so he has said, I want my inheritance now, which basically says, hey, Dad,

[00:41:58:00 - 00:41:59:06]
Chris
 I really wish you were dead.

[00:42:00:17 - 00:42:11:12]
Chris
 That's what he's saying. And yet, like, and for Jewish boy to find himself in a pig pen eating pig food, it's just like the word, like you couldn't go any further.

[00:42:13:09 - 00:42:28:12]
Chris
 And yet here's his father running to him. And so anytime we come to our senses and move toward the father in repentance, he meets us far more than halfway. He's like, he's there.

[00:42:29:18 - 00:42:36:04]
Speaker 3
 Yeah. All right. Well, that's a good place to wrap up. I appreciate it.

[00:42:36:04 - 00:42:41:13]
Brenton
 Thanks for your work on this sermon. We'll continue on through John 13.

[00:42:41:13 - 00:42:42:01]
Chris
 Yeah.

[00:42:42:01 - 00:42:48:15]
Brenton
 All right. If you have any questions, ask at furtherpodcast.com and we'll talk to you next week.