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Brenton
 Welcome back to Further. I am Brenton Grimm. This week we have two of our pastors in here with us. So we have Clay Baker, and we have Matt Mitchell. How are you guys doing?

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Clay
 Doing good. Yep, great.

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Brenton
 Thanks. Yeah, thanks for your work this weekend, preaching through John 14. You guys had three verses, kind of right in the middle of 14.

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Brenton
 And this week you really spent most of the time talking about prayer. And so that's kind of where I want to start today.

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Brenton
 What would you guys say are the main reasons that believers struggle to pray consistently?

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Clay
 Well, I can start just with a couple of things that come to mind that are true in my own life.

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Clay
 One is maybe self-reliance, that I'm just really quick to go to my own efforts,

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Clay
 my own even thoughts. Maybe I'm thinking about a problem a lot, but not praying through it. And I'm relying on my own efforts to fix something or control an outcome or accomplish something. Then another thing is maybe you might call it materialism, but just that we have so much, at least in this country, at least around here, many of us, most of us,

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Clay
 are just blessed with so many material provisions things. That's not bad, but it means maybe that we're not as hungry or dependent on the Lord to work in a situation or provide. And so maybe both of those things are kind of a form of pride where I'm just looking to myself and what I have and what I can bring to the table before I go to God.

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Matt
 Yeah, for sure.

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Matt
 Yeah, I agree with that. I think too, something we can kind of fall into is thinking that prayers are just asking only,

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Matt
 or even like a prayer before a meal, or I hear the pastors pray at church, or my community leader prays before I start community group. And it just feels like only us talking to God, rather than, I'd say the bigger category or umbrella of prayers is drawing near to God and even being quiet before Him and just settling our hearts on Him. Or you could be reading your Bible and praying the Scripture that's right in front of you. And so I think just getting locked into just kind of like a mundane,

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Matt
 people who are Christians pray at these different time periods or meals or whatever,

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Matt
 that would discourage somebody from praying. And then I think the biggest thing this comes down to is not experiencing God in prayer.

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Matt
 Because if you do, it's like, why am I not talking to God more, listening to Him more?

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Matt
 I'm turning to these other things, but once we start to get into the habit of it, it's actually really delightful,

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Matt
 unless it's just a have to and kind of this mundane sort of,

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Matt
 this is what Christians do sometimes.

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Brenton
 Yeah. What is it, do you think that gets you to that point where it's not just us talking at God, it's actually drawing near to Him? Like what needs to change in someone that is kind of in that position right now?

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Matt
 That's a great question. I mean, I'm just thinking about my life, how I've grown in prayer or any other area. And it's typically someone else who's more mature than me, inviting me into something, kind of like a Bible study leader or a discipleship group, or I go to some sort of conference or a retreat or something where it's like, oh wow, somebody's talking about this in a way, I am not used to hearing about it. And they're kind of inviting me, hey, try this.

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Matt
 And then I do it because they tell me to, I haven't thought about it that way. And I'm like, oh wow, that worked. I want to try that again on my own or whatever. And I could share more about this later. I'm curious what Clay has to say too. Something I do, I think is very simple. I've found this very helpful the last couple of years.

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Matt
 I don't really like to journal, but I have a journal and I use it as far as prayer aid.

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Matt
 I'll like write God on the left side of a page and make a dotted line down the middle, and then put thank you on the right side of the page. And just under God, I'll just put little one word or a sentence of just things that are on my heart. They're making me anxious that I just want to bring to God in prayer.

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Matt
 And it's just good to write it down and you can write as much as you want or just job or spouse or kids or whatever. It can be short. But then looking back at it the next couple of days and being like, how have I seen God actually help me in these areas? And that's been really powerful. God is moving. There are greater works that He's doing. We'll talk about that more. But He is answering things, but we're just really easy at forgetting.

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Clay
 Yeah, it's really similar to what came to my mind when you asked that question, Brent,

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Clay
 for me to draw near to the Lord, He's available at any time and He invites us to draw near to Him. And He promises in His word that when we draw near to Him, He will draw near to us. So part of it for me starts with just remembering that promise, that truth, and then taking time or a time out from what's going on in my life to be still before Him and to draw near.

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Clay
 And then the next thing that I thought of was when I feel near to Him or what helps me feel closer to Him, even though He's always with me, is when I'm thankful and I remember things that I'm thankful for. And that's very similar to what Matt was just talking about. I thought of 1 Thessalonians 5, 16 through 18, says, "Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you." So we're to always be thankful. There's always something to be thankful for, and that's God's will for us to remember that and to praise Him for it.

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Brenton
 Okay, that's good. Both of you mentioned that verse 12 is often kind of misinterpreted. This is where Jesus says, "Whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do and greater works than these will He do."

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Brenton
 I think that is a confusing verse, right? And I think both of you kind of pointed that out.

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Brenton
 In fact, like this is one place that many of the like Word of Faith teachers will go to defend their position of,

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Brenton
 our almost need to do better works than Jesus did. And so this kind of puts all the focus on us. But I wonder if just one of you could explain again, I know you did on Sunday, but just so it's clear what Jesus meant and what He didn't mean by greater works here.

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Clay
 Matt's indicating for me to take this. And I know he handled it ably in his sermon, so he could have done it too. But yeah,

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Clay
 it is confusing when I first read that. I'm like, "Huh, what do you mean Jesus?

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Clay
 What am I gonna do that's greater than what you did?" And so digging into that, and commentaries were helpful for me in this, but they helped me see that it's not talking about like greater in terms of like the quality of the work or the type or nature of the work. And that's fairly intuitive for us. I mean, that's why it's confusing because we can't really see ourselves as doing something better than what Jesus did. He's God and we're not. So what are we gonna do that tops His work, so to speak? So really what is He saying there? And one of the keys is what we're gonna be talking about in the coming weeks, but it's the fact that Jesus, He goes to the Father in part so that He can give us the Holy Spirit.

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Clay
 And for the first time in human history, the Holy, starting with Pentecost in Acts 2, God the Spirit comes to permanently and dwell every believer in Him, every believer in Jesus. And in the Old Testament, we had seen God the Spirit come upon certain people at certain times, for certain occasions temporarily to empower them. But in the New Testament, in the age of the church,

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Clay
 we've got the Holy Spirit within us permanently empowering our works for the glory of God in Christ.

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Clay
 And so I think that has a lot to do with what He's talking about with the greater works. It's not that we're gonna do better or more superior or spectacular works than Jesus, but we're gonna, really it's Him, Jesus is gonna be working through us, through His Spirit. And it's not just Him as an individual, Jesus in Jerusalem, Judea, that area. It's gonna be believers in Him all over the world. And so it's greater works than these, they're more numerous.

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Clay
 And they more greatly point to the personal work of Jesus, like the truth of who He is and what He's done. Because now on this side of the cross, He's already been crucified, He's already been resurrected, He's already ascended to heaven. And we can look back with the benefit of hindsight and these great works that Jesus does through ordinary people, ordinary believers all over the world, they all point back to Him, who He is, He is the very Son of God and what He's done for us in saving us. So I think that's what He means by, we're gonna do greater works than these.

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Brenton
 Yeah, that's good. Matt, you would kind of sum this up into greater in number, scope and visibility, right? So it's a good way to think about that.

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Clay
 Well, why don't you just say that then, Brenton, come on. Sorry.

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Brenton
 Matt already said it, I can't claim it. But yeah, I mean, it's the fact that Jesus is working through all of us now, there's a lot more getting done and we've seen that.

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Brenton
 Matt, you said that Jesus' plan is for us to carry on God's works in the world. You define this type of work as anything you do out of a love for God and your neighbor by the Spirit.

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Brenton
 And I think it's so easy to get caught up in a mindset that we need to do something that is really big for the kingdom and we kind of lose sight of the importance of being faithful in the mundane, everyday things that we're called to do. How have you guys experienced that in ministry? Do you think that people generally understand the importance and value of that mundane work? I mean, I think of moms raising their kids, right? Like not something that's generally seen as like huge in our society, but it's so important and it's where Jesus has them. And so just, yeah, speak to that a little bit.

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Matt
 Yeah, that's a great question and worth diving into because one of these ditches that we can fall into as Christians is to think I'm far away from God if I'm not having a mountain top experience or there's not something in my life that I can point to right now, we're making this giant impact. And so, and we kind of race to find the next thing that's gonna make us feel like we're doing something more when just ordinary obedience and faithfulness in the home and in our life, no matter what God's calling us to, just abiding in him as John 15, the first part of John 15 Jesus is gonna tell us to do. I think that's what it comes down to.

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Matt
 There's, I'm gonna be paraphrasing it, but there's a pretty famous quote by Mother Teresa where she basically says, like, "If you wanna change the world, like go home and love your spouse."

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Matt
 And, but just like, if we're always looking for this, you know, big amazing thing, like I need to be the best, the next Billy Graham or like whatever, God probably hasn't called you to that, but like, what has he called you to and his word? And it's like, do that in his strengths and he'll honor it. And only God sees the big picture and the cumulative effect of that obedience and faithfulness to him.

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Matt
 So yeah, that's kind of what I would say.

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Clay
 Yeah, I think it's very well said. And, and, and Brenton, I like your question because sometimes as a pastor, I can get a little uncomfortable with,

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Clay
 I don't know, the feeling that when someone's given me a compliment or praising me in some way for my work, which is very kind, but sometimes I get the feeling and I try to speak against this, like, like, hey, being a pastor is no more special of a kind of work than what you, brother or sister in Christ are called to.

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Clay
 And Ephesians 2.10 is great. It's true for every believer. It says, "For we are his, God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." So whether you're a stay-at-home mom or a plumber or a doctor or a pastor, God has good works for each and every one of his children. And as we've been talking about with the Spirit, he empowers us with his Spirit to walk in them for his glory.

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Clay
 Yeah.

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Clay
 Yep.

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Brenton
 Kind of alongside this, Matt, you also said that these works are downstream from intimacy with God. Right? So like, firstly, what do you mean by that?

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Matt
 Yeah, so I kind of tried to lay this out in my sermon in three parts, not this particular thing, but my entire sermon, but the middle part was power. God supplies the power for us to do this. And I mentioned the Holy Spirit, because that's,

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Matt
 he is who empowers us. And the next, the rest of John chapter 14, 15, and 16, keep talking about the Holy Spirit as our helper,

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Matt
 whom will be sent. And we can't do this stuff on our own, but John chapter 15, Jesus says, "Apart from me, you can do nothing."

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Matt
 And also part of drawing on that power is praying.

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Matt
 And it's just really easy. I think all of us can probably relate to a time in our lives growing up in church or in and out or whatever, where we were going through the motions, but it wasn't out of a place of intimacy or power from the Spirit. It was just, I'm kind of checking the box or whatever it is, but there's just such a huge difference between I'm doing this out of a love for the Lord. And I feel like He's putting wind in my sails to do this. I'm not just out there going through the motions.

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Brenton
 Yeah.

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Brenton
 What's maybe the process of getting to the point where our service does flow out of the Spirit and not, I guess I think you're right. It's so easy to make what we do about us and kind of our own self-effort.

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Brenton
 Yeah. What is it that kind of pulls us back and says, "Hey, I can't sustain this at least by myself."

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Matt
 Yeah. That's a great question. I would say if you don't have joy in service, it's not in the strength of the Spirit. And that's actually a good place to be because hopefully the Lord is, by His grace, getting you this place of being poor in spirit, like Jesus talks about in the Beatitudes the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount, where it's like, "Okay, something's off here. I'm not supposed to be grumpy in my service. I'm not supposed to be frustrated all the time. And I do feel like I'm without strength." The Psalms are kind of this way too, where it's like, "Okay, God, I'm kind of at a dead end here."

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Matt
 And we start that kind of process of repenting and placing our faith in Him again. Like, "God, you've got to help me out here. I want you to give me the right attitude. I need your spirit to empower me." Your spirit for salvation, we're sealed with the Spirit when we believe. And God regenerates our heart, but I need your spirit to help me pursue you and others with this attitude of joy. And I've got my priorities out of whack right now, or whatever it is.

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Matt
 It's okay to be poor in spirit because that's where we find the Lord again.

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Clay
 Yeah, this is just a small example, or one thing we could talk about among many, but I was just thinking about it. I experienced as a pastor having done a fair amount of volunteer recruitment in my career.

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Clay
 And I would say regularly, whether with a prospective volunteer or someone who's been serving a long time, and maybe they're tired,

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Clay
 I would just say, like, I never want somebody to serve in the church or wherever out of a sense of pure duty or obligation, and they're not finding joy in it, and they're not finding that kind of delight in serving the Lord and serving others. And I would much rather them take a break, take a rest, say no, than just to serve out of their flesh,

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Clay
 which only leads to frustration, and that's just not what we want. So somehow connecting with the Lord and abiding in Him and sitting in and basking in the grace that we have in Christ and really believing there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus and really believing that and living like it. And knowing, like, it's okay to pass up this opportunity to serve. It's more important for you to delight in Him than that.

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Brenton
 That's a really good encouragement. I think even just hearing that from someone here at the church, I think, is going to be helpful for people that feel like they're kind of stuck and just have to keep moving.

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Brenton
 I don't know. There's a lot that our culture does to us, and that's one of them. It's got to keep being productive.

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Brenton
 Clay, you explained that praying in Jesus' name means praying through Him and for the things He would pray for. Where in Scripture do we find examples of Jesus praying, and what do we learn from them? What kinds of things did Jesus pray for? What do you want us to walk away with, with that?

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Clay
 Yeah, well, one example I mentioned in my sermon, that's when Jesus is in the Garden of Gethsemane. So this is just, you know, hours before His crucifixion, and just the weight of everything that was to come was upon Him, and He prays to His Father, "If it be possible, take this cup from me."

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Clay
 But then He says, "Yet not my will but yours be done." And so we see there in Jesus, like, something we can relate to is He's asking God for something that He wants, which is like, "Hey, I don't want to suffer like this, like on the cross and taking the sins of the world and experiencing your wrath."

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Clay
 That's His human nature, saying that. You know, in His divine nature, He always wants the same thing that the Father wants, but then He submits His will to the Father's and showing that perfect oneness. And so there we see, like, He is content with and even desiring of accomplishing His Father's will at whatever price, whatever cost to Himself.

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Clay
 Another great example of Jesus praying is in John 11 with the resurrection of Lazarus. And it says in chapter 11, verse 40, starting in verse 41, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that that they may believe that you sent me." So here again, He's relating to God as His Father, His Heavenly Father. He's thanking Him. He knows that God hears Him when He prays, and He's saying this out loud, not like for His own benefit, but for the benefit of those standing around. "That they may believe that you sent me." So that's another indication we see of what's on Jesus' heart and mind when He prays He wants people to believe in Him. And so we obviously want that for ourselves and believe in Him, but we can be praying for others to also see that He's been sent by the Father and the work He came to do. Then of course, real quickly, just the classic example, this is Jesus teaching us how to pray. It's the Lord's Prayer, and you can find it in Matthew 6, verses 9 through 13. And I won't go through it word for word here, but if you're spending time in church, you know it. And if you don't know it, look it up in Matthew 6, 9 through 13. But there's some specific things He prays for there, including that God's will would be done. Yeah.

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Brenton
 So if someone finds themselves praying mostly for selfish desires, things that, you know, maybe their own heart desires, but not necessarily in line with God's will, how can we better align our will with His in that situation?

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Clay
 Well, first I would say I don't think it's wrong to pray for your own, we can call them selfish desires.

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Clay
 This is one of the main things I wanted to get across in my sermon, is that we don't have to worry about the form of our prayers, or that we get the words just right, or even that we get the thoughts and intentions just right. Now that does not mean that we are perfect, or that we are perfectly aligned with God's will. But what I was trying to get at in Romans 8 is that the Spirit Himself, He aligns our prayers to be with God's will. So that's just right off the bat, and I just want to say it's okay to pray for yourself, it's okay to pray for things you want, and if those things are selfish, God's going to work that out for your good and His glory anyway.

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Clay
 But secondly, a great place, I think like the place, to go to learn more about God's will, His character, His heart, in His Word, is in Scripture. So as we read Scripture, as we study it, memorize it, delight in it, meditate on it, we are transformed. We're transformed from the inside out, and our wills are more aligned with His. And so we can, and I think Matt alluded to this earlier, that we can go to Scripture and even pray through Scripture, and we see the things that are important to God and reflecting His character, and we can pray those things too.

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Brenton
 Yeah.

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Matt
 Yeah, I actually was in a conversation just yesterday at the juvenile detention facility in Lee County, and one of the boys in there, he literally asked the question,

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Matt
 like, should we expect God to answer our prayers if they're just selfish prayers? And we had a good conversation in there, but the passage we were studying that day, it was all about God having our heart,

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Matt
 and basically we concluded with, ultimately, the prayer God wants to answer more than any other prayer is that He would have our heart.

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Matt
 And He will answer these other prayers in our life, just like physical needs, and this day to day, like, God help me with this, you know, help me find a parking spot, or whatever it is. God shows up in these like very, very mundane small ways, just like, Lord, I'm pretty sure that was you.

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Matt
 But I think of Jesus' prayer in John 17,

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Matt
 the high priestly prayer, spoiler alert, we'll get there eventually, but His main prayer is that His disciples would be made one as He and the Father are one.

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Matt
 And He wants to make us more like Himself, not just give us everything that we want, but actually as we get to know Him better, and we become one with Him,

[00:26:00:23 - 00:26:25:07]
Matt
 we actually want the things that God wants and not the things we used to want. And that's kind of this amazing transformation that takes place that I think anybody who's been a believer longer than probably a few months realizes, you know, I used to think this about what God could do for me or things I would pray, and I've actually seen Him answer in better ways because I look more like His Son.

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Matt
 I mean, sanctified. Yeah.

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Brenton
 Yeah, good.

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Brenton
 Clay, you mentioned just a little bit ago Romans 8,

[00:26:40:15 - 00:26:46:11]
Brenton
 and you referred to that to show how both Christ and the Spirit intercede for us.

[00:26:47:22 - 00:26:59:15]
Brenton
 You use this to address the issue of unanswered prayers, which I think is probably one of the bigger concerns in the church of, you know, what our prayer looks like is,

[00:27:00:15 - 00:27:08:06]
Brenton
 what do we do when we pray for something earnestly that seems to be in line with God's will, but just is unanswered?

[00:27:10:15 - 00:27:17:19]
Brenton
 And so could you kind of give us a short recap of what you were saying in this section of how Romans 8 applies to this?

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Clay
 Yeah, sure.

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Clay
 It's a powerful chapter of Scripture. It's one of my favorites, so I encourage you to study the whole thing, and there's all sorts of topics that it addresses, but one of those topics is the way that God intercedes for us, which just means He prays for us. So He does that in His Son Jesus in heaven right now, interceding on our behalf, and that's in verse 34. And then we can see in 1 John chapter 2, and we can see in Hebrews chapter 7 that that intercession of Jesus for us seems to relate to our atonement, like what He did for us on the cross. So He's just constantly in heaven saying, "Hey, they're forgiven. They're covered in my blood. I'm the propitiation for their sins." Like, they're good. In Romans 8.1, I've already quoted it, but there's therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. So Jesus is always saying that before His Heavenly Father, so we don't have to be stuck in guilt and shame as believers, even when we sin, because Jesus is always saying it's taken care of. Another way, though, that He intercedes for us is through His Holy Spirit, who lives in us, and this is referred to in Romans 8, 26 and 27, and that relates more to our sanctification.

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Clay
 Matt's already touched on this a little bit, but those verses say that we don't, it just makes a statement that we don't know what to pray for as we ought.

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Clay
 And I used to kind of, I mean, I've been aware and familiar with this chapter of Scripture on some level, and even these verses for some time, but I always for some reason kind of read that as like, "When we don't know what to pray for, the Spirit intercedes for us, He prays for us."

[00:29:04:16 - 00:29:08:22]
Clay
 It's a little different than that. It's a statement. We don't know what to pray for as we ought.

[00:29:10:10 - 00:29:15:08]
Clay
 And this is Paul writing, and he doesn't exclude himself from this. So even Paul is saying, "I don't know how to pray."

[00:29:16:18 - 00:29:48:07]
Clay
 But that's okay, because the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words, and then it talks about how God and the Spirit are of one mind, and they know each other, and therefore the Spirit knows, the Spirit knows the will of God, and God hears the Spirit's prayers. And so the Spirit, it says, intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. So even when we don't know God's will, or even when we think we know God's will, but we don't know how it's going to apply to a specific situation,

[00:29:49:07 - 00:29:52:23]
Clay
 the Spirit takes our prayers and makes it according to God's will.

[00:29:53:23 - 00:30:02:16]
Clay
 Every time. In fact, I was just talking with an elder at this church who said, "You know, Clay, for many years I've heard pastors say that,"

[00:30:03:17 - 00:30:10:01]
Clay
 and he gets it, and I get it, that, you know, God's answer to prayer is either "yes," "no," or "not yet."

[00:30:11:05 - 00:30:19:01]
Clay
 And we can understand what they're saying there. But he said, "Clay, I've always kind of felt like, based on Romans 8, that the answer is always "yes."

[00:30:20:15 - 00:30:22:14]
Clay
 And it's just how do we understand that?

[00:30:23:21 - 00:30:44:23]
Clay
 And the next couple of verses are key to understanding that, and Matt's already alluded to it. But right after it says, "The Spirit intercedes for us according to the will of God," it says, "We know that for those who love God, all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose." And then it says, "That they may be conformed to the image of His Son."

[00:30:45:23 - 00:30:52:11]
Clay
 And so our good, God's always working for our good, and our good is to be more like Jesus, the Son of God.

[00:30:53:18 - 00:31:18:23]
Clay
 And so every prayer of ours is taken by the Spirit and, like, transformed into a prayer that is right and good and according to God's will, and that will is always for our good, and it's always to make us more like Jesus and always glorifies God. I think that's so encouraging. It is so encouraging and makes me want to pray, and keep praying and not worry about what I'm praying, because the Spirit's got it and it's going to turn out okay.

[00:31:19:23 - 00:31:31:02]
Matt
 Yeah, that's a really good word, Clay, and I would say all of that's also rooted in our future glorification, and so when that will fully be realized, God has this plan for us that doesn't end,

[00:31:32:10 - 00:31:47:02]
Matt
 you know, on this side of eternity, it goes into eternity with Him, where we will be like Him, and He is going to answer everything perfectly according to His will and these things we've been lifting up, because He's got a better plan that's coming.

[00:31:49:04 - 00:31:51:00]
Brenton
 Amen. Yeah, that's really good, guys.

[00:31:52:10 - 00:32:03:19]
Brenton
 Well, to close this one out, what's one word of encouragement you'd give to someone who wants to grow in prayer, but struggles to make it a regular part of their life?

[00:32:06:15 - 00:32:55:20]
Matt
 I've got a couple, one word. I've got a couple of thoughts. They're just very, very practical. I mentioned the journal thing towards the beginning. Go back to being in the podcast and listen to that again if you forgot, or catching this at the end or whatever. That's been very helpful for me personally. I would say something else, walking on a nice day, and just, like, you don't have to be praying the whole time. I mean, you're obviously not going to have your eyes closed or your hands folded or anything like that, but just be with the Lord. And if things come to mind, talk to Him about it, and listen, and take your time. And then the last thing we've talked about this already in the podcast too, but read the Word,

[00:32:57:02 - 00:32:59:19]
Matt
 and I would point you maybe to the, go to the Psalms, start there,

[00:33:00:19 - 00:33:12:01]
Matt
 don't just try to get through it. Linger on the verses, and if you only get a little ways, and there's one verse that's standing out to you, or a phrase in a verse,

[00:33:13:10 - 00:33:24:23]
Matt
 and you're kind of chewing the cud, you're meditating on that just one spot, that is going to be so much better than you reading 10 Psalms that morning. But you're kind of like, what do I even do this for?

[00:33:25:23 - 00:33:40:05]
Matt
 You're praying if you're just meditating on one spot, and like, what does this mean for me? I'm going to claim this promise for myself today that you're with me, and you're for me, and my enemies won't triumph over me, and you have something good planned for me.

[00:33:41:06 - 00:33:44:17]
Matt
 That would be my encouragement. Writing, walking, reading.

[00:33:44:17 - 00:34:19:19]
Clay
 Yeah, no, I can't say any better than that. I'll just add one more little tip, I guess, something I've started doing recently. I always used to start my quiet time in the morning with reading the Bible, but lately I've been starting with prayer, and it just came from a realization that I was often taking the bulk of my quiet time to read the Word, which is great, but then the prayer just either didn't happen or it happened hastily, and so I wanted to kind of rebalance that, and just to do that, and I just decided to start with prayer, and hopefully, and I have seen an increase in my life, it's been great.

[00:34:21:00 - 00:34:21:13]
Clay
 Cool.

[00:34:21:13 - 00:34:24:12]
Brenton
 Thanks, guys. This was a good conversation.

[00:34:26:18 - 00:34:34:08]
Brenton
 If you guys have any questions at home, ask at furtherpodcast.com, and we will be back next week. Talk to you later.