[00:00:42:00 - 00:00:46:17]
Brenton
 And we're back. How's it going? We're back, yeah. I'm Brenton Grimm.

[00:00:46:17 - 00:00:50:08]
Chris
 Yeah, maybe. We need to re-entry ourselves, right?

[00:00:50:08 - 00:00:51:06]
Brenton
 This is all backwards.

[00:00:53:00 - 00:01:00:12]
Brenton
 No, it's good to be back. It's had a little bit of a time off. But yeah, we're back into a new year. Happy new year.

[00:01:00:12 - 00:01:01:19]
Chris
 Happy new year to you.

[00:01:03:12 - 00:01:11:09]
Brenton
 Let's start with talking a little bit about this all-in update from Sunday. That's big news. We're at 48% already.

[00:01:13:00 - 00:01:16:17]
Brenton
 Yeah, talk about that a little bit. What's been going on in that front?

[00:01:16:17 - 00:01:53:00]
Chris
 Yeah, I mean, it's just another place that we find ourselves where we just kind of, I think, have to be blown away by what God is doing. And that includes both in terms of just growing us in depth. And by that, I mean the gospel fruit in people's lives of transformation and just growing in their love for Him and, yes, real spiritual fruit. And then in conjunction with that, the growth in breath.

[00:01:55:05 - 00:02:12:17]
Chris
 That's in part the financial aspect of it. The Lord just providing more and more funds to be able to do ministry. And again, a year ago at this time, we were just about ready to launch everything.

[00:02:14:07 - 00:02:20:13]
Chris
 And that $18 million number just seemed huge.

[00:02:21:17 - 00:02:24:12]
Chris
 And like, OK, really? Really, God?

[00:02:25:12 - 00:02:58:14]
Chris
 And I know I was asking that. Our older team was asking that. And I know for sure a lot of people in our body were asking that. And yet, He just worked to provide the commitments. And now He's further working to provide the actual resources for those commitments and really beyond to be met. And so it's just a measure of His faithfulness. And again, though, it too also makes me really thankful for the people of harmony who--

[00:03:00:15 - 00:03:43:21]
Chris
 we're just continuing in the longstanding tradition of this church that dates back long before you and I, Brandon, were part of this, is where people said, OK, all right, Lord, this is what you're calling on us to. And we're going to trust you. And we're going to make sacrifices. And we're going to walk in this path. And the Lord just, His time after time, shown Himself faithful. And a lot of people have been reached by the gospel because of all of that. So yeah, it's pretty amazing. And we've still got a ways to go. But I just more and more--

[00:03:45:12 - 00:03:50:15]
Chris
 when these opportunities come, I'm just like more kind of like, oh, well, of course.

[00:03:52:04 - 00:04:03:10]
Chris
 And I don't want to say like, it's no big deal. It's just like, well, of course, He's done that because it's just part of the pattern that we've seen.

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Brenton
 Well, there's a certain trust that gets developed there, right?

[00:04:06:03 - 00:04:17:12]
Chris
 Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully, this is going to help us to grow in trusting Him for bigger things in the day's end.

[00:04:18:13 - 00:04:45:13]
Brenton
 For sure. Yeah, I mean, it's easy to look at the numbers and kind of focus on that. But I don't know. I had a chance to sit down with a few people and talk over just the kind of spiritual changes that came out of even that short seven-week series and just some of the all-in stuff. And I don't know. It's encouraging to see just even the mundane, everyday things of life are being transformed.

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Chris
 Yeah. Well, maybe this movie's good to give the podcast listeners a preview. We've got a video you're working on for the Sunday, coming Sunday, where we're going to share stories about what the Lord's been doing in people's lives.

[00:05:01:13 - 00:05:07:10]
Chris
 So take it from the numbers and just like translate that into like actual, real transformation.

[00:05:10:00 - 00:05:10:15]
Chris
 So it'll be great.

[00:05:10:15 - 00:05:12:11]
Brenton
 Sure. OK. All right.

[00:05:13:12 - 00:05:17:00]
Brenton
 So you briefly talked about psychology in your message.

[00:05:18:09 - 00:05:24:18]
Brenton
 And I'd like to have you expand on your thoughts a little bit here. And I do mean a little bit, because I know you have a lot.

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Brenton
 I think what's bringing this up is

[00:05:32:01 - 00:05:37:03]
Brenton
 people can have vastly different opinions on the usefulness of psychology, especially within Christendom.

[00:05:38:11 - 00:05:50:00]
Brenton
 There's just a lot of different opinions. But just to get your thoughts on it, because I know this is something that you've studied quite a bit, when would you say that it's useful? Like what is it useful for?

[00:05:51:04 - 00:05:57:20]
Chris
 Yeah. Well, let me-- and I will try to be brief here. And you can help me with that.

[00:05:59:08 - 00:06:05:05]
Chris
 First, this is a big, potentially controversial subject.

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Chris
 And so I want to first get out, like this is something that I've been devoting quite a bit of time to studying and wrestling with and praying through, and even taking courses in regards to this whole issue about really the intersection of psychology and theology, and how we should understand and actually really pursue, use psychology according to the scripture.

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Chris
 And so I just think it's important for everybody here. I'm not just kind of off the cuff here, the thoughts or anything like that.

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Chris
 And I think that we need to be careful to define what we mean by psychology. And that's really important.

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Chris
 And I would understand it as the study of the nature, condition, and remedy of the human condition. I'll say that again, the nature.

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Chris
 You know, we're talking about like anthropology here.

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Chris
 The condition is also part of anthropology.

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Chris
 What are people like now?

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Chris
 And then what's the remedy for the condition that we find ourselves in? And so the relationship then between this and really what I would say Christianity, how Christians should engage with this is we understand that God has very clearly revealed truth outside of the Bible.

[00:07:55:20 - 00:08:38:20]
Chris
 And the Bible tells us that. You know, you talk about Psalm 19 or Romans chapter 1, just as two passages, is that there is truth about, in particular, nature. And we talk about the nature of mankind, nature in general, you know, like the sun, moon stars, and all of that, outside of the scripture. So there's truth that can be done. And God has revealed that. And so we need to be careful that we don't think that, like, the Bible contains all the truth everywhere that there is. I think I'm very dangerous. And we all affirm this in terms of like, you know, other sciences, right?

[00:08:40:22 - 00:08:58:15]
Chris
 And whether it be astrophysics or, you know, biology or anything like that. And so we should expect that God would reveal truth about humans through psychology.

[00:08:59:17 - 00:09:29:00]
Chris
 So that's on the one hand. On the other hand, we also need to understand that modern psychology in the last several hundred years, and I should also say this, people have this idea that psychology has only been around for like a couple hundred years. That's actually not true. People have been practicing psychology for millennia. And we even see a psychology in the scriptures. Okay. It's the study of the nature condition and the remedy of human beings.

[00:09:30:17 - 00:10:17:15]
Chris
 But modern psychology is heavily secularized, arose after the enlightenment, which elevates the scientific to, you know, basically the ultimate standard of truth and has no place for, you know, really truth being revealed through any really type of religion, but in particular through the Bible. So modern psychology elevates human wisdom and what humans can discover science through science and at the same time minimizes or like just says there's nothing to be gained from the scriptures. So that they have it exactly backwards.

[00:10:19:01 - 00:10:19:07]
Chris
 Okay.

[00:10:21:02 - 00:10:31:21]
Chris
 And so we've got to understand that if we approach psychology from the modern view and the way that it is often used,

[00:10:34:12 - 00:11:00:20]
Chris
 we're going to go wrong. It's going to go bad because oftentimes we will find that what modern psychology may have to say about human beings is in conflict with what the Bible says. And modern psychology is going to say like, well, the Bible's wrong and what we've discovered. And the problem, there's multiple problems with that.

[00:11:01:21 - 00:11:06:03]
Chris
 The biggest problem is that modern psychology is fallible, the Bible is infallible.

[00:11:07:04 - 00:11:09:20]
Chris
 And so to summarize all of this,

[00:11:11:07 - 00:11:36:13]
Chris
 the Christian approach is to give the Bible, the ultimate authority and to filter the findings of psychological science through what the Bible teaches about the nature, condition and remedy of human beings. So that there are, we want to take and say like, are there helpful things that God has revealed through science?

[00:11:38:11 - 00:11:41:04]
Chris
 And I just give one specific example, like neuroscience,

[00:11:42:12 - 00:11:59:19]
Chris
 which doesn't have like many of the trappings of modern psychology because it's like really the study of the brain and nervous system. Like there's some, I really believe we could get into something called like neuroplasticity and what it's revealing about how the brain changes.

[00:12:01:03 - 00:12:11:18]
Chris
 Okay. So I'll come back to this in a second. We could take that and say, okay, yeah, that could be really helpful in us understanding human beings. And how does that help us to then,

[00:12:14:14 - 00:12:46:12]
Chris
 as long as it's under the authority of Scripture and in line with what the Bible has to say, how does it help us to understand human beings and maybe to actually move towards health and healing as God would define that? So we don't dismiss, I don't think we should dismiss psychological science, but we also shouldn't put it on the pedestal where it gets to be the one that directs how we understand human beings and how the remedy for them is.

[00:12:47:13 - 00:12:57:23]
Chris
 And so, yeah, there's a lot more in that. And then this is what I just come back to that neuroplasticity issue.

[00:12:59:05 - 00:13:26:20]
Chris
 Neuroplasticity has to do with how your neurons, which are the cells that make up your brain, the brain cells, neurons, it's how they actually are plastic in the sense that they actually then are moldable, they're malleable. And so in Romans 12.1 Paul tells us to be transformed by the renewing of the mind. Well, I just, I love this. What neuroscience is showing us is that the mind is renewable.

[00:13:28:21 - 00:13:30:00]
Chris
 That's neuroplasticity.

[00:13:31:02 - 00:13:54:04]
Chris
 The Bible doesn't say that the brain, right? That's a discovery is actually plastic and neurons and doesn't describe how it actually happens. That's what neuroscience does. And there's some really, really helpful things that can help us understand. And then we can apply those to this, how do we see that our mind is transformed like Paul talks about in Romans 12.

[00:13:55:09 - 00:14:34:09]
Chris
 And so I think when we don't say, "Psychological science is bad. Christians should have nothing to do with it." And we don't also elevate it to the point where we just say like, whatever it says is true and it's our final authority. When we avoid those two things and we can bring them together, then we have a fuller picture and we have more tools that can actually help us to understand how people are made up and then how they actually can change and experience healing.

[00:14:35:17 - 00:14:39:22]
Chris
 So that's, yeah, you can do whatever you want to take us wherever you want to there.

[00:14:39:22 - 00:14:52:06]
Brenton
 Yeah, there's a lot there. It's really interesting. I think maybe just to take it to a practical step here, like your average attendered member here at Harmony,

[00:14:53:23 - 00:15:17:07]
Brenton
 the way you're talking about psychology isn't ubiquitous, right? It's hard to find someone talking about psychology the way you are. It's mostly from a secular perspective. And so given that, and if we were going to go see a psychologist or whatever to deal with a mental illness or whatever,

[00:15:18:13 - 00:15:27:10]
Brenton
 how would you advise someone to deal with the reality of where we're at with psychology, right?

[00:15:27:10 - 00:15:27:18]
Chris
 Yeah.

[00:15:29:22 - 00:15:39:06]
Chris
 Wow, this is... In 30 seconds, please. 30 seconds, this is touchy subject in a challenging one.

[00:15:41:12 - 00:15:49:17]
Chris
 I think that if we're going to go see a psychologist, psychotherapist,

[00:15:52:01 - 00:15:53:17]
Chris
 we need to...

[00:15:54:21 - 00:16:00:10]
Chris
 First of all, I would encourage trying to find a Christian psychologist or psychotherapist

[00:16:04:02 - 00:16:11:23]
Chris
 because if it's a secular, unbelieving person,

[00:16:13:11 - 00:16:34:21]
Chris
 this whole spiritual component and being under the authority of the Word of God and all of that is just going to be missing. And there's a lot of... I think that there is a lot of danger and find that there is a lot of danger just in my experience from people who have gone to secular psychologists and therapists.

[00:16:37:16 - 00:16:49:22]
Chris
 I would suggest that if that is what needs to happen, and I think that there are times of that because maybe there's a need for medication, maybe there's a need for some...

[00:16:52:14 - 00:17:06:14]
Chris
 To see someone who has training, especially if someone's experienced trauma or something and there's maybe not available within the church or in your area, a Christian,

[00:17:09:10 - 00:17:11:19]
Chris
 again, a psychologist,

[00:17:13:03 - 00:17:27:17]
Chris
 that you do so in conjunction though with some pastoral or church counseling there.

[00:17:29:05 - 00:17:29:23]
Chris
 And so you're not...

[00:17:31:03 - 00:18:17:02]
Chris
 The person is not going to be out on their own sitting under the authority of someone who doesn't... And giving counsel and treatment and these kind of things just on your own. And so that you're being shepherded in what you are hearing from these individuals. And I know this is probably going to hit people in different ways. And it's really... This question you've asked me is hard because I really think it's a case... Yeah, for sure. This is a case by case basis depending upon what the person is struggling with, what resources they have available to them, and even maybe what they are comfortable with.

[00:18:17:02 - 00:18:29:22]
Brenton
 Yeah. No, I think that's helpful. I think the contact with your pastor over big issues like this is important anyway. And so I should probably start there.

[00:18:29:22 - 00:18:52:08]
Chris
 I mean, there's some things that we situations where people have experienced things and are struggling with certain things that we as the church may not be fully equipped to address.

[00:18:54:04 - 00:19:03:13]
Chris
 But I really think that the church should be involved in helping to figure out what

[00:19:04:14 - 00:19:13:01]
Chris
 is needed and where to go and then how all of that interaction is.

[00:19:15:00 - 00:19:42:01]
Chris
 And yet I'd say also that there are many things that I think people go to at times outside of the church and the counseling that the church has to offer that really the answer is found in the Word of God.

[00:19:44:17 - 00:19:59:12]
Chris
 And so I think we really have to be careful in going to people who do not view the Bible as the ultimate authority and God's Spirit is the ultimate healer.

[00:20:00:23 - 00:20:11:16]
Chris
 And so I'm trying... It might sound like I'm trying to play both sides here, but I think it's really important that we understand at the end of the day.

[00:20:13:20 - 00:20:26:18]
Chris
 You've got to be careful when we're going to people for counsel. And the Bible is really clear about this. Like who you listen to who's giving you counsel is absolutely critical.

[00:20:26:18 - 00:20:30:05]
Brenton
 For sure. No, that's good. Okay.

[00:20:31:06 - 00:20:34:00]
Brenton
 Okay. Thank you for that. Moving on.

[00:20:36:03 - 00:20:48:01]
Brenton
 You said early on that loving God with our minds may be the most important aspect of the Great Commandment for our moment. What makes this command feel like especially urgent now?

[00:20:53:05 - 00:20:54:06]
Chris
 Yeah, well, I just...

[00:20:56:05 - 00:21:09:02]
Chris
 I think if you looked out at the battle for the mind that's going on and it's just a continue, a continue onslaught about...

[00:21:11:11 - 00:21:31:08]
Chris
 I mean, I tried to lay this out on Sunday. It's just like all the media is the media that is being produced as a battle for our mind. Yeah, you get to our heart, but again, the mind is how everything has access to our... You don't get to the heart without going through the mind.

[00:21:33:04 - 00:21:35:11]
Chris
 I just see...

[00:21:36:23 - 00:21:43:22]
Chris
 There really is a mental health crisis in our culture, like a huge one.

[00:21:45:10 - 00:22:00:09]
Chris
 And different demographics are struggling at different rates, but it's pretty much consistent through every generation and demographic is like mental health challenges are on the rise and some precipitously.

[00:22:02:09 - 00:22:04:03]
Chris
 And then we also see...

[00:22:05:20 - 00:22:23:02]
Chris
 You look from the spiritual component, which that mental health crisis is definitely spiritual, but we just see so many people struggling spiritually too and losing in many ways this battle for...

[00:22:24:03 - 00:22:31:00]
Chris
 Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians 10, like take every thought captive. He's talking about in warfare terms there.

[00:22:32:03 - 00:22:38:05]
Chris
 We demolish every argument and pretension that exalts itself against Christ.

[00:22:39:07 - 00:22:40:19]
Chris
 We take every thought captive.

[00:22:41:23 - 00:22:56:00]
Chris
 He's describing a war that's going on there. And we can just... I think if we step back and if we look at the war, whether it's war over things like gender identity or a whole other host of things.

[00:22:57:16 - 00:22:58:06]
Chris
 And so I just...

[00:22:59:17 - 00:23:02:07]
Chris
 I think it's... If we step back, I think it's pretty clear.

[00:23:03:18 - 00:23:04:00]
Brenton
 Yeah.

[00:23:05:00 - 00:23:46:14]
Brenton
 At one point on Sunday, you gave a specific warning to parents about the kids and you said there's a battle for children's minds. And obviously, given our Colossians passage we talked about, this isn't necessarily a new issue that our thought or the world is trying to take our minds or to fill our minds. But maybe, and I think you're right, it does present itself differently today, but why do you think it's especially important for kids today? And then what is...

[00:23:48:03 - 00:23:52:18]
Brenton
 Maybe just expand a little bit on what you wanted to talk to parents about at that point.

[00:23:52:18 - 00:24:03:02]
Chris
 Okay. So here's the best way I think I can do that. And if I repeat this on Sunday, everybody just give grace and just take it that it's very important.

[00:24:04:15 - 00:24:06:01]
Chris
 Talk about identity.

[00:24:07:16 - 00:24:08:08]
Chris
 Do you know who...

[00:24:10:00 - 00:24:11:04]
Chris
 Well, I say it this way.

[00:24:12:12 - 00:24:25:16]
Chris
 The ages in which identity are formed the most and are most malleable are in the pre-teen to teen years. So you take 10 to 18.

[00:24:26:21 - 00:24:37:18]
Chris
 That's when this addition of identity, like of who I am, that's when kids are wrestling with this the most. Okay?

[00:24:39:16 - 00:24:56:15]
Chris
 And so why it's so important for parents to help their kids in this age is because there are a lot of voices in the world that are trying to tell our children who they are.

[00:24:57:21 - 00:24:59:07]
Chris
 Some of that is their peers.

[00:25:00:16 - 00:25:04:00]
Chris
 Okay? And some of that is the culture.

[00:25:07:09 - 00:25:47:07]
Chris
 And the kids are very, very influential. They're easily influenced in this stage more than any other time in life. And most of the time what gets stuck in those years, like what comes out of those years, what they believe in those years, that is defining for the rest of their life. And even if it's not defining, it will play a big part in their life. And so it's just absolutely huge. And we need to understand that the devil knows this. And so he's just like, he's going to sow as much confusion as possible. Just to give one example of this is like,

[00:25:48:09 - 00:26:04:23]
Chris
 we hear a lot about this gender identity issue. And you hear, you know, child after child, or story after story, I guess, of kids who are being confused and not sure, you know, whether they're a boy or a girl or whatever.

[00:26:06:07 - 00:26:22:10]
Chris
 And yet what research is actually showing as part of this is not because they actually have struggled with that. It's just because they are being influenced through social media because it's actually,

[00:26:23:14 - 00:26:33:15]
Chris
 in some ways, cool or popular to be confused about this. Okay, so they are influenced by their peers.

[00:26:35:13 - 00:26:42:07]
Chris
 And so that's having a very significant impact. So that's just one little example there.

[00:26:44:06 - 00:27:02:03]
Chris
 And you know, it's been proven, we know this. And I just find it somewhat appalling that people just, at times, we just ignore this. But it's just proven that Facebook, like Marcus Zuckerberg, they knew what they were doing.

[00:27:03:20 - 00:27:10:12]
Chris
 They knew what social media was doing to kids and how it was harming them. And they just, they didn't care.

[00:27:12:16 - 00:27:16:00]
Chris
 They're making money. And that's all they cared about. He's literally admitted it.

[00:27:18:16 - 00:27:23:07]
Chris
 Did you watch the, you know, The Sundance here? I mean, I was part of it.

[00:27:24:09 - 00:27:35:19]
Chris
 And there's been other stuff that's shown. And so they know what it's doing to them. They know what it's doing to adult. But you asked me about kids.

[00:27:39:13 - 00:27:42:20]
Chris
 It's just kids are very formative.

[00:27:44:17 - 00:27:57:23]
Chris
 And especially, you know, all up to birth to 18 and even further. But especially in 10 to 18, this issue of identity is where their identity is being formed in that time.

[00:27:57:23 - 00:28:29:11]
Brenton
 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So if I were to get practical again here, and I don't want to step on your toes too much for next week, but so you're talking to parents in relation to this. Like what is the parent's responsibility here? So, you know, if you're talking about identity, it's something that the parents are likely struggling with in their own lives too, right? Like this is an issue that we all face. And so how can we as parents help our kids through this stuff? Like what kind of practices are necessary?

[00:28:29:11 - 00:28:32:18]
Chris
 Yeah. Well, the parents first of all, they do their own work.

[00:28:32:18 - 00:28:33:13]
Brenton
 Yeah.

[00:28:33:13 - 00:28:44:13]
Chris
 Okay. So then, you know, sometimes a good way to do your own work is to help your kids do their work, right?

[00:28:46:20 - 00:28:59:13]
Chris
 But you have to be honest and first to be aware of like where is your identity? Where do you find your identity?

[00:29:00:18 - 00:29:05:12]
Chris
 And why? And then try to discern why you find your identity in that.

[00:29:07:00 - 00:29:22:11]
Chris
 And some of the best ways that we can help our kids is just being honest with them and transparent about our own battles and where we wrestle with this identity and how it's a big struggle for us too.

[00:29:24:14 - 00:29:56:08]
Chris
 And then I mean, we just find ourselves back here again, right? Like what is the gospel? Do we really understand the gospel and are we really immersing ourselves in that and learning to preach it to ourselves and letting it to shape and form our identity? And then as we are doing that, how do we have our conversations with our kids about this and how do we teach them what the gospel is? And you know, this whole...

[00:29:57:09 - 00:30:16:12]
Chris
 I've been bringing this up a lot lately, but this whole idea of union with Christ, which I find is for a lot of Christians is just like, it's almost like new or like kind of unheard of and 160 sometimes in the New Testament, Paul talks about, he says with Christ, in Christ,

[00:30:17:16 - 00:30:46:01]
Chris
 over and over again, it's just like one of his... It's his go-to, one of his go-tos. And so that's where our identity is found. What does that mean? What is that about? Like how does that change the way that I view myself and who I am and what I'm here for and what God's called me to and just wrestling with that and helping our kids to wrestle with that? And I think then further,

[00:30:47:11 - 00:30:47:20]
Chris
 and this is...

[00:30:49:02 - 00:30:54:03]
Chris
 I'm not gonna talk about this too much because this is coming, this Sunday is like, what

[00:30:55:04 - 00:30:57:09]
Chris
 are we taking in?

[00:30:59:23 - 00:31:00:05]
Brenton
 Yeah.

[00:31:00:05 - 00:31:04:22]
Chris
 Right? Like what are we taking in? And if we are... And it just...

[00:31:06:11 - 00:31:23:17]
Chris
 Here it is. Like you just get down to it. If we are... If we're taking in stuff that is not in line with the truth and with the gospel and we're absorbing more of that.

[00:31:25:09 - 00:31:28:06]
Chris
 Than we are about what God says about us.

[00:31:30:20 - 00:31:33:06]
Chris
 I mean, what do we think is gonna happen?

[00:31:34:22 - 00:31:36:02]
Chris
 Right? And so...

[00:31:37:13 - 00:32:12:17]
Chris
 And the truth is, is whether it's... And I was telling somebody yesterday, like I never want to be the old guy who is, you know, everything's bad and stop watching this, stop listening to this. You know, I felt a little bit like that on Sunday, like it's AI, then it's social media and it's, you know, psychology, psychology. Like, if I'm ever that, please tell me. Got it. And it's like, I don't want to be that guy.

[00:32:14:17 - 00:32:16:03]
Chris
 And yet at the same time,

[00:32:17:11 - 00:32:52:11]
Chris
 I also have a responsibility to... Like we see like in the Old Testament, like as a pastor, I'm supposed to be a watchman on the wall watching for the dangers and the enemy that's coming and saying, "Hey, let's get ready and let's defend ourselves and let's protect ourselves." And like, so I'm just gonna go there. Don't you give it a perfect example? And then here, and I probably like of everything I've said today, this will probably be maybe the biggest one. Like, I think we just talked about Taylor Swift. Okay. So you didn't think I was gonna go there, but I'm gonna go there.

[00:32:52:11 - 00:32:53:03]
Brenton
 I don't know where you were.

[00:32:53:03 - 00:33:06:20]
Chris
 Like, if we think, and I'm not talking about everything that she's ever put out, but like this last thing, this last most recent stuff,

[00:33:08:03 - 00:33:13:04]
Chris
 like for many young girls, Taylor Swift is the biggest voice in their life.

[00:33:17:09 - 00:33:25:12]
Chris
 Okay. And I can defend everybody, so I can just pick something like, "Maybe I should need to pick it so that for every category..."

[00:33:25:12 - 00:33:27:05]
Brenton
 Yeah, this one's not effective.

[00:33:29:00 - 00:33:32:11]
Chris
 But is Taylor Swift's philosophy...

[00:33:34:07 - 00:33:36:14]
Chris
 philosophy, and she has a philosophy, she has a worldview.

[00:33:38:21 - 00:33:53:09]
Chris
 Is that the primary worldview that we want imparted to our children and to our young girls? Okay. And I can go, like again, I'm not...

[00:33:55:10 - 00:34:20:03]
Chris
 literally, you know, you can... I can go right down the list. If I believe it. Okay. Let me get at the older people, so I'll just do this. You know, like, if I think for a lot of older people, Fox News is the biggest voice in their life. And I know somebody's gonna say, "Well, what about CNN and MSNBC?" And I'm like, "Okay, well, yep, that's true too." But I think I know my congregation. Okay.

[00:34:21:03 - 00:34:28:21]
Chris
 And if Fox News is... if we're listening to Fox News more, the unbelieving voice is there

[00:34:30:04 - 00:34:32:09]
Chris
 because there's a philosophy and there's a worldview there too.

[00:34:33:23 - 00:34:39:07]
Chris
 And if that's... again, I'm gonna tell you not to listen. I'm just like, if that's the primary voice, like...

[00:34:40:13 - 00:34:45:19]
Chris
 and now I do sound like the old guy here,

[00:34:47:18 - 00:34:49:05]
Chris
 but it's more...

[00:34:50:05 - 00:35:13:00]
Chris
 what I really want people to hear more, it's not more about what you don't... you know, stop listening to this. But let's start listening to what God says. Just think about it this way. Again, I'll say this on Sunday, but like whose voice is the biggest in your life? Is it some media figure, musician? Is it a politician?

[00:35:14:04 - 00:35:18:04]
Chris
 Is it your parents? Is it your past?

[00:35:20:03 - 00:35:22:21]
Chris
 Is it a friend or is it the voice of Christ?

[00:35:24:10 - 00:35:31:03]
Chris
 And what we... so I know I'm non-tangent here, but...

[00:35:32:05 - 00:35:33:03]
Chris
 so back to your question.

[00:35:35:04 - 00:35:44:21]
Chris
 How do we as parents help our kids? It's by helping them to hear the voice of Jesus and helping Him to be the greatest voice in their life.

[00:35:46:12 - 00:36:05:13]
Brenton
 Yeah, one verse that's been ringing around in my head ever since you preached on Sunday is in Matthew 6, "For where your treasure is, your heart will be also..." and I think that, you know, there's so much of like, what do we value? What are we valuing in our everyday life more than our, you know,

[00:36:07:00 - 00:36:08:00]
Brenton
 Jesus, right?

[00:36:09:17 - 00:36:14:02]
Chris
 Yeah, and again, this is really good, you're absolutely right.

[00:36:16:01 - 00:36:21:12]
Chris
 How does it get to your heart? It gets to your heart through your head. Yeah, I think that's right.

[00:36:23:05 - 00:36:27:01]
Chris
 And, you know, just see... yeah.

[00:36:27:01 - 00:36:28:03]
Brenton
 Yep.

[00:36:29:05 - 00:37:00:06]
Brenton
 Okay, so before we move to the last one, I did have a question come in, and you had mentioned it a little bit, but, you know, especially on Sunday, you talked about Satan's role in all of this. Yeah, I had a question come in about this specifically. So her question was, "How much can the devil actually attack our minds? Does he just influence the things around us and that changes our mind, or can he actually put thoughts in our mind?"

[00:37:02:15 - 00:37:11:06]
Chris
 I don't think he can put thoughts into our mind. I think that he can influence them.

[00:37:13:23 - 00:37:18:08]
Chris
 We got to remember that the devil's also not, you know,

[00:37:19:12 - 00:37:39:12]
Chris
 omnipresent, so he can't be everywhere all the time. And we don't have any idea how many demons there are. Obviously, there's a lot of them, but I don't get the idea from Scripture, like there's a demon for every person walking around.

[00:37:41:04 - 00:37:46:05]
Chris
 And I think that what we see, you know,

[00:37:47:10 - 00:37:56:07]
Chris
 Genesis 3, the devil, he tempts, he provides temptation, he makes suggestions.

[00:37:57:22 - 00:38:04:03]
Chris
 Jesus is tempted in the wilderness. He does present thoughts to Jesus.

[00:38:05:04 - 00:38:25:18]
Chris
 So I would say it's probably more the idea of presenting it. But again, I think he presents it through, like, the world. Like, so, you know that John talks about the first letter of the world, the flesh and the devil,

[00:38:26:21 - 00:38:27:03]
Chris
 right?

[00:38:28:04 - 00:38:32:09]
Chris
 And I think that the devil works through the world on our flesh,

[00:38:34:00 - 00:38:37:05]
Chris
 is largely how it works.

[00:38:38:11 - 00:38:38:22]
Chris
 And so,

[00:38:40:09 - 00:38:48:03]
Chris
 you know, again, that 2 Corinthians 10, we're fighting, destroying arguments and lofty opinions raised against God.

[00:38:49:04 - 00:39:09:12]
Chris
 Ephesians 6, where it says, you know, take up the shield of faith as you can extinguish the flaming darts of the evil one. What are those flaming darts? I think that those are philosophies, lies, and all. I don't think the devil gets inside of us as believers anyway,

[00:39:10:18 - 00:39:14:03]
Chris
 brains, and starts putting thoughts in there.

[00:39:15:04 - 00:39:15:20]
Chris
 Now,

[00:39:16:22 - 00:39:25:17]
Chris
 you know, we have this idea, we have this discussion around intrusive thoughts, and I'd really need to probably study that more.

[00:39:27:16 - 00:39:36:00]
Chris
 But there's, you know, the mind is very complex, and you have things like, you know,

[00:39:37:09 - 00:39:47:18]
Chris
 thoughts and ideas and images and experiences do get lodged in the mind. And literally the structure of our brain, okay?

[00:39:49:14 - 00:40:09:03]
Chris
 And so, and sometimes they're unconscious, they're not always, like, we're not even necessarily aware that they're there. And there can be triggers that actually bring those, and I'm getting pretty technical here, but they're literally triggers that can bring those up.

[00:40:10:04 - 00:40:16:09]
Chris
 And yeah, that's another maybe another thing, but...

[00:40:18:06 - 00:40:20:03]
Chris
 Yeah? Okay.

[00:40:21:05 - 00:40:58:20]
Brenton
 Yeah, I think the fact that you bring up Jesus in the desert, right? When he's getting tempted, that's, you know, that is kind of what's happening there, but also at the same time, like, his response was to, you know, quote scripture. And I think that, you know, that is part of taking every thought captive. I think there is a work there, not that I'm saying that all of that is necessarily controllable, but, you know, feeding ourselves truth in those times too is important. All right, so you strongly rejected the idea that activity produces identity.

[00:41:00:04 - 00:41:07:04]
Brenton
 Could you real quick just give us a, like, what are you talking about there, just to remind people?

[00:41:09:01 - 00:41:09:07]
Chris
 Well,

[00:41:10:19 - 00:41:14:07]
Chris
 who, or what makes you who you are?

[00:41:15:07 - 00:41:31:04]
Chris
 Okay? Is it something outside of you, or is it something inside of you that you produce on your own by, you know, what you do?

[00:41:32:19 - 00:41:38:13]
Chris
 And so that's what we're talking about. Who am I? How do you answer that question?

[00:41:39:15 - 00:41:52:22]
Chris
 Who am I? I am what I do, or I am who God says that I am, or I am how I feel right now,

[00:41:54:10 - 00:41:57:16]
Chris
 or is it, no, this is who God says that I am.

[00:41:58:21 - 00:42:03:19]
Brenton
 Yeah. Would you say that, like, everybody struggles with that? Absolutely. To some extent? 100%.

[00:42:03:19 - 00:42:05:09]
Chris
 There's no doubt.

[00:42:05:09 - 00:42:17:18]
Brenton
 So what is the result of this kind of thinking? Like, if we could reverse this and, like, think about this clearly, what kind of things would be resolved? What are the problems with this?

[00:42:22:04 - 00:42:23:01]
Chris
 Well,

[00:42:24:04 - 00:43:04:12]
Chris
 I mean, they're manifold. I think if you were to talk to literally every one of our counselors and our pastors, they would tell you that this is a topic that comes up so, so often and creates so many different problems when we get this reversed is because, you know, if it's, if it's, if it is our, that our activity, what we do is, what we do that gives us, makes us who we are, our identity, that we're always gonna, it's never gonna be enough because we can never do enough.

[00:43:05:15 - 00:43:07:04]
Chris
 And we're never good enough.

[00:43:08:21 - 00:43:13:03]
Chris
 We fail, or if we fail, we lose. People say,

[00:43:14:12 - 00:43:20:01]
Chris
 I mean, just for example, if my identity is primarily in, like, being a preacher,

[00:43:22:04 - 00:43:59:12]
Chris
 then every Sunday and for days after that, I'm gonna, like, it's, my life is gonna be right on how well I thought, I thought that I did and whether or not people affirm me or not, or I will be just absolutely devastated if people say, like, I wasn't very, very, very good. I didn't like that. Or they get upset, like, even if, if my identity is wrapped up in, like, how people respond to what some of these things that I've said here,

[00:44:00:22 - 00:44:21:06]
Chris
 then I'm in trouble. And in, just to be transparent, there is a struggle for me and that. But, I mean, this causes all kinds of problems in marriage because my identity is, like, for a woman, my identity is in being a good wife and my husband's upset at me. Oh boy.

[00:44:22:21 - 00:44:28:16]
Chris
 Or husband, if he feels disrespected by his wife because the identity is tied up in his work and is providing.

[00:44:30:04 - 00:44:45:15]
Chris
 And, yeah, and so it literally touches pretty much all of our relationships and touches our view of God. If our view is that, all right, we earn our identity,

[00:44:46:16 - 00:44:51:03]
Chris
 then if that's how we view ourselves, then we think ultimately that's what we think, how God views us too.

[00:44:52:04 - 00:45:02:14]
Chris
 And so it comes from, it leads to a faulty view of God, actually comes from a faulty view of God too. It's both.

[00:45:04:03 - 00:45:09:02]
Chris
 So, I mean, I could go on and on in there, but it's just, it's so massive.

[00:45:10:06 - 00:45:26:10]
Brenton
 For sure. Okay, so your remedy this week was a proper understanding of our union with Christ, right? So how does understanding that and actually living in that address the issue?

[00:45:29:05 - 00:45:29:10]
Chris
 Well,

[00:45:31:04 - 00:45:35:01]
Chris
 you know, it's a great question.

[00:45:37:07 - 00:46:11:03]
Chris
 I would say this is where this whole concept of setting our minds on things above and seeking the things that are above is so important. And they actually go hand in hand. Why should we do that? Because of who we are in Christ. But doing those things is actually key to us being able to know and understand who we are in Christ. So the more that I think about what Scripture says, like 1 John 3.1, I did two this week, but here's one.

[00:46:12:04 - 00:46:16:00]
Chris
 "Behold what manner of love the Father has for us that we should be called sons of God."

[00:46:18:09 - 00:46:36:16]
Chris
 And that is what we are. We are God's children now. And the more that we give ourselves and think about that and meditate on that and pray over that, and here's the other part of it, the more that we live in community with other people. So our identity,

[00:46:39:00 - 00:46:48:01]
Chris
 growing in our understanding and application of our identity, so it's not just a mental understanding, but it's actually believing it in our heart.

[00:46:49:04 - 00:47:01:08]
Chris
 That's why we need other people so other people can speak the truth into our lives and other people who will love us, not for what we do,

[00:47:03:01 - 00:47:04:03]
Chris
 but for who we are.

[00:47:05:04 - 00:47:21:04]
Chris
 And hence, one of the massive reasons that we struggle with identity is because we have a real tendency to treat each other only on the basis of what we can do for one another,

[00:47:22:04 - 00:47:26:03]
Chris
 instead of loving people for who they are, instead of what they do.

[00:47:27:04 - 00:47:30:22]
Chris
 And I'm guilty of that big time.

[00:47:32:03 - 00:47:59:12]
Chris
 So this is what we like. This is a community. This whole identity issue is a community issue. It's not an individual issue. You will never truly grab hold of your identity on your own. And by on your own, I'm even talking not just Jesus and you. I'm talking about you need other people.

[00:48:02:12 - 00:48:09:03]
Brenton
 All right. Well, that's a lot. A lot. Yeah, welcome back everybody.

[00:48:09:03 - 00:48:13:05]
Chris
 Break it up into two. A long one. I've had, yeah, a month, so.

[00:48:15:01 - 00:48:17:19]
Brenton
 Well, good. Yeah, good to be back. Thanks, Chris.

[00:48:19:00 - 00:48:26:15]
Brenton
 If you have any questions, feel free to send us an email, ask at furtherpodcast.com. We'll be back with you next week. Talk to you then.