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Brenton
 Welcome back to Further. I am Brenton Grimm.

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Brenton
 Chris Carr, how are you doing today? Pretty good. Good.

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Brenton
 We also have someone else in here. Maybe a bit of a surprise, because he didn't preach this weekend, so-- No, I did not. Yeah, not normal. But since this topic is--

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Brenton
 we're talking a lot about identity. We're talking a lot about loving the Lord with our minds. I wanted to bring in Matt Yaley today. He is our pastor of counseling ministries. And I thought he would just have an interesting voice on this, some different perspective. And I think he has a lot of unique experience in this realm. And so, yeah, Matt, why don't you introduce yourself? What do you do here? How long you been here?

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Matt
 Been here a while.

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Brenton
 Yeah, you have.

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Matt
 Serve as a pastor of counseling ministries currently. Yeah, just to oversee our counseling ministries, our counseling team and staff. And it's really a privilege to be a part of that. So glad to be here.

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Chris
 Yeah. How long is it now? Is it only 18 years or so?

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Matt
 It'll be 18 years this summer at Home of the Bible Church.

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Chris
 It's a long time.

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Chris
 Yeah. Yep. Mm.

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Brenton
 Well, congratulations on the 18 years.

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Chris
 Yeah, you were still in college or something, Brenton, or high school. 19 years ago?

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Brenton
 I don't know.

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Chris
 Yeah. High school? Yeah, probably high school. Yeah, well, weird. Makes you feel old.

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Brenton
 I'm not as old as Matt, right? Not quite, not yet.

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Brenton
 OK, the other thing that I wanted to do before we get started here is this coming Sunday, we have a new series starting. And Chris, why don't you tell us a little bit about what we're doing?

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Chris
 Yeah, we're kicking off basically a month on the family. So family month and series called Created and Called, God's Vision for the Family. And we've got a lot of different aspects of that. And then we're going to wrap everything up with a conference on February 21, which is going to be great. Matt will be one of the speakers at that conference. And we've got a lot of other people who will be contributing to that. It's going to be, I think, a great and important month for us and looking forward to it. Hope everybody will be here, dive in, and many of us will sign up for the conference, which you can do on our website. I guess I'm giving a little bit of an infomercial here. You're doing great. Yeah, if you can do so through our app or website. Or you can do so on Sunday morning. So love to see you there.

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Brenton
 Yeah, that's great. Now I'm looking forward to it. How many weeks is the sermon series?

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Chris
 Four weeks. So yeah, it could be much longer than that. We're just going to hit the basics on things like marriage and sexuality.

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Chris
 And then the church's role in that. And also, we're going to begin this Sunday, really, by just looking at the big picture of what God has designed the family to be.

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Brenton
 Yeah, important topics.

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Brenton
 OK, let's get started with one of the--

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Brenton
 you described the battle for the mind as real, ongoing, and unavoidable.

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Brenton
 Where do you guys-- this is for both of you-- where do you guys see believers most underestimating that battle today? Like, where is it sneaking in where we just don't expect it?

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Chris
 Well, can you just find for us a little bit? What do you mean by where?

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Chris
 Are you talking about like, where in culture, where in our own experience?

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Brenton
 Yeah, I mean, like, what kinds of things, I guess maybe practically speaking, what kinds of things are we not realizing that are affecting us at that level?

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Chris
 Yeah, I'm probably going to let Matt speak mostly on this, because I think I hit--

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Chris
 at least where I see it on Sunday in terms of the media that we're consuming. I think we have this idea-- maybe we just don't even think about it-- that a lot of what we take in is neutral and does not really impact us in a negative way.

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Chris
 And that's just not the case. There is no such thing as neutral media. And when I'm talking about media, I'm not just talking about like, you know, news. I'm talking about like any form of media that produces content that we take in. None of it is neutral.

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Chris
 And so it's either, as Paul says in Romans 12, it's either conforming us to the world or forming us into the image of Christ.

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Brenton
 Matt, any thoughts?

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Matt
 Yeah, I think, as Chris talked about on Sunday, just the social media and this digital world that we live in,

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Matt
 I think there's a battle for influence. And I think a lot of times parents and even

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Matt
 an adult and kids underestimate the amount of influence they're giving away with the technology and allowing that to underestimate how that's shaping us and even kids, but adults as well.

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Matt
 And to Chris's point, to really also realize anything that diminishes Christ is unhelpful. And even as we talked about in our men's group this morning,

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Matt
 20 minutes in the Word put up against hours and hours on digital media, that's a losing battle.

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Matt
 And so you just have to take that into consideration

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Matt
 that it's not neutral. It's actually having a tremendous impact on the thoughts in our mind and what we're consuming.

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Chris
 Yeah, I would add something that really just kind of came to mind, but it's something that you and I have talked about, Brenton, before.

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Chris
 And it will definitely be something like at our family conference. I particularly will be talking about. But one of the places that we lose this battle for the minor, at least, we're fighting is there's nobody who talks to us more than we talk to ourselves.

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Chris
 And so what we're saying to ourselves has a vast influence in our lives. Somebody talks about influence, which is really important.

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Chris
 And we have in many ways more influence on ourselves than anybody does. And so kind of understanding what story are we living in, what story are we telling ourselves? And there's a lot of work that maybe we need to do. This goes back to this identity piece, which we're probably going to get to again today. But just that's, again, why that identity piece is so important for us to work on. Because our identity comes from these stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves, and about the world we're living in, and about our experiences, and even about God and other people. And so again, rooted and tied into that identity. And I think people just vastly underestimate at times

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Chris
 what they are actually telling themselves

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Chris
 and how much influence it has. Like we have a way of interpreting all the time situations and circumstances. And we do this literally in almost every interaction that we have with other people about what we have, our beliefs influence how we interpret those kind of things.

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Chris
 And so the four of us are going to go interact with other people after today. We'll even interact with one another and how we understand what people are saying to us. And what they mean by that, what they're saying,

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Chris
 it will be interpreted by how we are processing that in our own mind. No, that's a good point. It's a bigger issue that we could maybe tackle some other point. But I think that we're talking about the battle for our mind. We're battling, it's our minds. We're not just battling with what other people are saying or what the evil one is trying to get us to believe. We're also battling with our own thoughts a lot of times.

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Matt
 Yeah, I heard a podcast of a guy talking about, he said, we tend to listen to ourselves,

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Matt
 but not intentionally talk to ourselves. So what he's saying is that if we're accidentally just taking in and consuming and we're just listening to what we're telling, what our mind is consumed with and not intentionally leading it or speaking into that, then we realize it's pretty negative voices if we're consuming those things. And so we have to do more than just listen to that voice. We have to be intentional of what those voices are, what we're telling ourselves.

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Matt
 And I just thought that was an interesting distinction of, like in 2 Corinthians 10, 5, of taking every thought captive and destroy arguments and lofty opinions. And that's an intentionality. And there's nobody's opinion that I love more than mine. So...

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Chris
 Well, sometimes those arguments and lofty opinions are our own, right? Exactly. We have to destroy those.

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Matt
 Oh, yeah, probably more than... Because those are coming from... Depending on what's influencing us, yes, for sure. Those are unhealthy.

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Matt
 And a lot of them are diminishing Christ in the sense that they're not considering that or intentionally including the aspect of our identity in Christ and that, we're forgetting that. And they can take us on the journey if we're not capturing and killing them intentionally. And yeah.

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Brenton
 Yeah. Well, that kind of begs the question. I mean, I don't hope this isn't redundant at all. So we're kind of assuming all of these things are happening, maybe without us realizing it consciously.

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Brenton
 So how do we discern what these things are? How do we look at our lives when we don't even maybe realize that these things are grabbing hold of us as hard as they are? How can we make that a constant kind of ritual in our life to discern what has control over us?

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Chris
 Yeah, that's a big topic. I mean, you're talking about, you know, we have what we're conscious of, and then there's actually our subconscious, and then there's actually unconscious parts of our mind, brain. So we could do a dive into that, but we're not going to today. But it actually plays a part in this.

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Chris
 But yeah, I'm interested in what we're going to do. I'm wondering what Matt has to say on this. And I just will say one of the things that I think can really help us if we're willing to take time and not be rushed,

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Chris
 and just we've got a vast taking in and taking in, and we're keeping ourselves constantly busy. And sometimes that's not necessarily with activity, other than we're just sitting, taking in media, or scrolling and those kinds of things. And really to take time, what am I thinking about?

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 (Laughter)

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Chris
 We don't even think about that. What am I actually thinking about? Where is my mind going?

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Chris
 And just I think that this almost talks about, you know, search me and try me, oh God, and show if there's any wicked way in me. And so like, am I thinking in a wrong way here? Is my heart going in a wrong direction? But a lot of times I think we get so busy or so distracted that we don't do that.

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Chris
 For sure.

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Matt
 Yeah, I think part of even growing in our walk with the Lord and our sanctification is becoming aware of just how unintentional or accidental we are in addressing even our identity in Christ and what that means and walking in that and how that's formative. Because, you know, if our old nature, and this is what the world is doing, is they're trying to self, they're basically self-created identity. Like I'm going to decide who I am and pursuing that when we are who are in Christ, we have a settled identity.

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Matt
 It's settled. It's in Christ.

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Matt
 Yet that old self that rears up and wanting to run after and find identity and all the other things, many other things, not bad things. It's just that's the temptation.

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Matt
 And it's just by default, if we're not intentionally grounding and rooting ourself, which Colossians 1 and 2 talks about,

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Matt
 then we're going to find ourselves

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Matt
 pursuing our identity and a lot of other unhealthy things and going to create chaos and unhealth.

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Matt
 And so, yeah, I just think that's where we find it, running after things that we think are going to make us feel better, affirm us.

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Matt
 They're not bad things. It's just, they're just not going to satisfy.

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Chris
 Yeah. Yeah, I think we just live in a world where we are more and more wanting to numb ourselves

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Chris
 because we don't want to deal with

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Chris
 whether it's pain, hurt, guilt, shame,

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Chris
 confusion. And so what we do is we give ourselves all kinds of different things, really essentially addictions,

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Chris
 which include social media, addiction, phone addiction,

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Chris
 just consuming things, addiction, as well as obviously things like alcohol and drugs and pornography and all those kinds of things. And the problem is that they only make the problem worse.

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Chris
 And so being willing to face the hard thoughts and hard feelings and to really be able to kind of stare them in the face and process them in such a way that we can hopefully move towards the Lord and through His word and spirit and church, find healing. But I really do think if we're never really willing to stop taking so much in and to pause and be still and know that I'm God and become more aware of things,

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Chris
 I think it's going to be really hard to do what you're suggesting there.

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Brenton
 Yeah, that's a very good point. I think even what you talked about earlier with the way we talk to ourselves, I think that that can cloud.

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Brenton
 There's so much input that there's just a lot bouncing around in our heads all the time, right?

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Chris
 Yeah, and the devil is fine for us just to stay as distracted in our minds on this cycle of just chaos really.

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Chris
 And that's the way that it is, I think, probably in these days for all of us to some degree, but for some people a whole lot. And I mentioned, again, social media, and I would also include much of the cable news

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Chris
 and websites and all that. They function on this idea of outrage.

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Chris
 They get us angry in that releases, we find it releases like both dopamine

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Chris
 and something another's hormone called cortisol, which is a stress,

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Chris
 something that hormone actually helps to regulate stress. And so we just get caught in this infinite loop where we're always high and then anxious and high and anxious and they keep us locked in. And because they keep it locked in, because the more we view, the more money they make, because there's more ads that they can put out. And it's just a never ending loop.

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Chris
 And that's just one example.

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Matt
 I mean, just take all that cycle of what we're telling ourselves about hard work and accomplishment, you get a high, they're stressed with that, you get a fix, it just keeps cycling through that and you get your identity on what I accomplish or who I am. It's the same deal, it's what you're trying to find your identity in and it's an unbearable burden after a while to continue to basically create that for yourself when in Christ, it's like, hey,

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Matt
 you have a fixed identity in Christ. And I think the key is that that needs to be the biggest lens that we see life through,

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Matt
 but that's really hard in a world that crowds that out.

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Matt
 And so we're seeing, there's a lens of so many other things and but, you know, so that's the battle we're up against. And that's why it's relentless effort of reminding ourselves and rehearsing of who we are.

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Chris
 Yeah, that makes me think, like maybe this illustration will help.

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Chris
 Imagine that you're a child with two parents and the one parent repeatedly tells you that you're not doing enough, you need to work harder, you'll never be enough.

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Chris
 And another parent reminds you, you know, like you're loved,

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Chris
 accept you, I have unconditional like acceptance and love for you.

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Chris
 Whichever parent speaks to you the most and whichever parent you listen to the most will largely determine how you see your identity.

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Chris
 And let's suppose like, you know,

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Chris
 the parent who tells you that they love you, but they only do it occasionally,

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Chris
 but the other parent who's you're not enough, you need to work harder, you're never amount to much, those kind of voices, you're hearing that every day. Well, I mean, we all know how that child is gonna see their identity. And so it's not a perfect illustration in any way, but we do have the word that tells us over and over again about God's love and grace and mercy to us

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Chris
 and it is available to us.

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Chris
 And then we have the church and prayer and the spirit those things I talked about on the application points I talked about on Sunday.

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Chris
 But what the reality is, is that most of us are living in a world where we're hearing the voice of you're not enough, there'll never be enough.

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Chris
 You need to work harder, you need to do more, you need to achieve.

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Chris
 And so like,

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Chris
 it's some ways over simplification, but at the end of the day, like this is what I was talking about on Sunday, what voice are we gonna listen to?

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Chris
 Yeah,

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Chris
 I mean, it's easy to say, I just wanna be in it, it's harder to live out, but that doesn't lessen how true it is.

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Brenton
 Yeah,

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Brenton
 well, and some of that can be cyclical too, right? Where you're, the more you've believed those things about yourself, the more you kind of look for that, right? And like those things become really believable to yourself.

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Chris
 Yeah, it tends to me to get back into the,

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Chris
 with how our brains function, but it really is as our brains get wired in such a way that they just, that's the way that they go. Yeah.

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Chris
 Yeah, we just go to those, their patterns of thinking. And there's only one way to really to rewire the brain and therefore the mind and that is by,

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Chris
 well, we could go to Ephesians chapter four, I know you've got it on the list for us to talk about today. So it's, Paul calls it putting off and putting on, that's how we renew the mind.

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Brenton
 All right, well, since you beat me there, let's go there.

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Brenton
 You didn't spend much time on Ephesians four on Sunday, but you actually brought it up yesterday in a conversation and it's incredibly relevant to what we're talking about. So, this is where Paul does say, we need to put off our old self, put on the new.

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Brenton
 Talk a little bit about how this passage adds to the topic. Like what is Paul saying here?

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Chris
 Yeah, I think this would be good for Matt to answer. I know he uses this passage a ton in counseling.

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Chris
 So maybe I'll lob the ball over to him here and let him answer.

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Matt
 Yeah, this is a, my Bible opens up to it pretty fast in Ephesians four and it just describes the sanctification process and really, you go to even starting verse 17,

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Matt
 but it really talks about how the deceptive desires

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Matt
 of our old nature of those who are in Christ still can linger really. And if we're not careful, we can fall back to those, the old way of thinking pretty fast. And so there's gotta be an intentionality to put those off. It says, put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life

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Matt
 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind. So that means there's a renewal of your mind, your thinking, you need to see these things differently.

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Matt
 You need to see them the way Christ sees them. And now you have the opportunity to do that because of the spirit of God that lives inside of you. And the only way that you do that, put that off is that you've got to replace that or renew that with the righteousness of Christ, holiness of Christ. And so it's, you can't just say, well, I have God's righteousness now and I'm good. You have to put off the old way of thinking for those new ways of thinking, those righteousness is renewing your mind and seeing that. And so, yeah, that's the,

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Matt
 when do we need to put off? What do we need to cut out?

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Matt
 And really, sometimes really dig out

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Matt
 and then so that we can renew our minds into what God's called us to in righteous thinking, holy thinking, Christ-like thinking in some regards. So, and that's the progressive sanctification process of, that's the transformation. At the moment of salvation, there is a transaction, justification.

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Matt
 That's key, we declared righteous. That's who we are, that's our identity. And now God's called us to walk in that,

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Matt
 in a manner worthy of that. And so the only way that we're gonna find the fuel to do that is to remember who we are in Christ.

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Matt
 And that's the only way we can do that through the Spirit of God.

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Matt
 And then the rest of that chapter, really the rest of the book is about practically what that looks like of putting off and putting on, should transform the way we think, the way we treat people, the way we resolve conflict, the way we do marriage, the way we parent, all of those things are fruits of renewing our mind, putting off and putting on. So, yeah, pretty applicable.

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Matt
 And I would start back as that, I've said this before is you could probably counsel someone through the book of Ephesians, pretty easy. So when you talk about identity,

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Matt
 Ephesians 1 covers it pretty good. And that just sets the basis of when thin and force is, walk in a manner worthy of your calling. It reminds us of our calling in that. So, yeah, it's not just behavior modification, it's putting on your identity and walking in that and reminding yourself of that. And to love God is the basis of all of that.

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Brenton
 Yeah, that's really good. I love that you mentioned behavior modification right at the end of there. And it's just the opposite of that. It's realizing the truth about us, it's realizing that these things are already in reality true of us where we stand before God.

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Brenton
 And then that is our motivation for actually playing these things out. And so I think there can be no better motivation than it already being true of us. So it's good. Yeah, I appreciate that, Matt.

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Brenton
 We did have a question come in.

[00:30:04:00 - 00:30:22:10]
Brenton
 He said, Chris mentioned five things. He suggested we implement in our battle for the mind. But he said, there were many others. I know that men and women probably struggle with some of the same and some different battles in the mind. What are some of the other things that we can consider?

[00:30:24:04 - 00:30:24:08]
Chris
 Sure.

[00:30:26:11 - 00:30:38:20]
Chris
 One, a sixth one that is absolutely essential to, and I just was running out of time. Actually, I went over time. I'm sure everybody recognized that on Saturday. Yeah.

[00:30:40:07 - 00:30:57:04]
Chris
 We might call it community, but I would I think further clarify that to say the church, we need other people, but not just other people. We need other believers in our lives to help us with the renewing of the minds.

[00:30:59:01 - 00:30:59:06]
Chris
 Yesterday,

[00:31:00:12 - 00:31:34:14]
Chris
 Brent, you heard me. We talk about how the US Surgeon General views currently that there is an epidemic of loneliness and isolation in our country and that the health risk of isolation and loneliness are the same as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. We hear that and we're like, really? I mean, you can go, it's right there. That's how dangerous to our health. And it starts with mental health, but then it trickles down to our physical health

[00:31:35:14 - 00:32:39:09]
Chris
 from there. And so we're not created to live in isolation. We're created to live with other people. And particularly then we've got to go further as believers and say we were created to live in community with other believers. The New Testament is just abundantly clear on this. We could talk about this for extended amount of time, but we just, we have to have other people who are speaking the truth of God's word and especially the truth of our identity in Christ and into us over and over and over again and helping us to understand what that means, what that looks like, how we live it out. Back to this Ephesians 4 passage, like there's so much there. Like in Ephesians, there's a lot, even in Ephesians 4 about speaking the truth in love right before that passage Paul's talking about that. And so, community can be difficult and hard.

[00:32:40:13 - 00:33:05:07]
Chris
 We're gonna talk in this coming series, like the church is God's family. And we know in our family's life can be great, but it can be really, really hard. And that's, there's nothing different about that in the church for sure. And so, but it's just, it's absolutely essential. I've got maybe a couple more, but I'm sure Matt has something to contribute on this topic.

[00:33:05:07 - 00:33:18:02]
Matt
 No, I just affirm that like, if we talk about Ephesians 4, the context is the church, and that's powerful, that's where transformation happens. And so unity and maturity,

[00:33:19:08 - 00:33:29:03]
Matt
 it takes the Spirit-filled people to do that. It's not easy, but that's why God is sanctifying us through those honestly hard relationships sometimes.

[00:33:30:09 - 00:33:42:23]
Matt
 They're exposing things that we need to deal with and put on the righteousness of that. And so, absolutely, I think, yeah, you read your Bible, it's transformational. I've seen it change many people's lives,

[00:33:44:03 - 00:33:46:09]
Matt
 but the next step is they need to be in a community.

[00:33:47:19 - 00:33:55:14]
Matt
 And that's essential too for transformation to happen in the sense of doing it as a group project.

[00:33:57:13 - 00:34:10:17]
Matt
 People, men speaking into my life have had the biggest impact on transforming my life and my growth, and I think God put us together to help us become more like Christ.

[00:34:12:07 - 00:34:16:09]
Matt
 And that's not always fun, it's not always easy.

[00:34:18:19 - 00:34:23:15]
Matt
 But that's the point. When we're his family, we're his children,

[00:34:24:22 - 00:34:30:08]
Matt
 we're gonna see the church differently, and we're gonna love it like he does.

[00:34:31:19 - 00:34:40:15]
Chris
 Yeah, yeah, so the living in community can be hard, but to not to is actually deadly.

[00:34:41:16 - 00:34:52:10]
Chris
 I mean, we just take that again, the loneliness and isolation issue from the physical saying, but this is what the world is saying, but then you take it, it's deadly spiritually,

[00:34:53:19 - 00:35:05:00]
Chris
 to live in that. I would add confession and repentance. Like this is not something maybe we talk about enough.

[00:35:06:03 - 00:35:08:22]
Chris
 James says, "Confess your sins to one another "that you may be healed."

[00:35:11:04 - 00:35:30:21]
Chris
 And so just going before the Lord and confessing where our minds are not being renewed, where we are maybe, as Paul talks about in Ephesians 4, he tells us not to live as the Gentiles do in the futility of their minds, but maybe we are.

[00:35:33:07 - 00:36:37:14]
Chris
 It's repenting for that, admitting that to God, asking for his forgiveness and experiencing the renewal even that comes from that. I think that that's a big one. I would add on to this, and this isn't gonna be a touchy subject, so I'll just say it before, but like our physical health and caring for our bodies, and I know that's hard for many people in terms of like illnesses and aging and all those kind of things, but our minds are embodied. And so to think that the state of our physical body does not impact our mind and vice versa is just, we're missing something there. And so Christians, I really believe, should do all that they can to care for their bodies, which means it's possible exercising, eating correctly, hopefully getting enough rest and sleep, and all of those things have a significant impact on the state of our mind. And we don't talk about this a lot,

[00:36:38:18 - 00:36:48:05]
Chris
 but we live in a culture where gluttony is even admired, and the Bible has quite a bit to say about that.

[00:36:50:02 - 00:37:13:14]
Chris
 And again, I know it's a sensitive topic, but it's a related issue for sure. And again, I wanna be careful there because I know there's many people who have challenges, physical challenges there that make it difficult to do all of that.

[00:37:14:18 - 00:37:24:01]
Chris
 But it is another way as we are able to help with having the mind of Christ and renewing the mind.

[00:37:26:08 - 00:37:34:07]
Brenton
 I have a question that is maybe gonna sound like it's coming out of left field here a little bit, but it's practical and I think it'll be helpful.

[00:37:34:07 - 00:37:38:13]
Chris
 We never go that way. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's my turn that way, right?

[00:37:39:22 - 00:38:02:07]
Brenton
 Now, I had a quick conversation with someone Sunday morning after the service, and one of the things that we talk about a lot on this, and it came up again today, is the media landscape, right? And the way that we get sucked into it, and it creates fear, and it's just this cycle of worry and anxiety.

[00:38:03:17 - 00:38:36:06]
Brenton
 My question, and his question was like, okay, so yeah, that's an issue that we all have. But if we want to educate ourselves on what's going on in Iran right now, how do we engage with that stuff in a proper way without getting sucked in, without that creating so much anxiety in us that we get back into this cycle? I think it's so easy to do that, but at the same time,

[00:38:37:15 - 00:38:44:18]
Brenton
 I think it's important to deal with some of these issues and to be educated as well. So what are your, I guess, what are your thoughts on that?

[00:38:46:21 - 00:38:49:21]
Matt
 You know, that's a really, that's tough.

[00:38:51:01 - 00:39:39:05]
Matt
 Hard to know, like discern what's being said, what's not being said. I've told my son years ago, you don't just have to pay attention with what they're telling you, it's what they're not telling you, and that's hard to know about any issue. I think you just, you have to really search your heart and say, why do I want to know about this? And if it's gonna send me into some anxiety or upset me, it's probably some wrong motives there. You just gotta figure out why do I want to know this? And then you gotta be discerning. I don't have any special website that you could go find that. And in AI, it's hard to even know what's true and not true

[00:39:40:19 - 00:39:42:17]
Matt
 and to be discerning. Again,

[00:39:44:11 - 00:39:46:13]
Matt
 I think it's even more of a reason of like,

[00:39:48:01 - 00:39:58:06]
Matt
 we need to be really careful of getting sucked in the hole. And like, I mean, I have people tell me, did you hear about that? And I'm like, that's not true. That's not true, where'd you read that?

[00:39:59:07 - 00:40:10:10]
Matt
 You know, and it's like, yeah, it is. And it's just like, what website are you on? Like, you know, and so, but they're convinced it is, which is scary, you know? And so,

[00:40:11:17 - 00:40:21:06]
Matt
 yeah, I don't have any, I just think that, you know, you gotta really be cautious because it is a,

[00:40:22:13 - 00:40:30:10]
Matt
 like you said, a black hole of like, and then you just like, I'm not gonna care about anything or I'm not gonna, so I don't know.

[00:40:32:09 - 00:40:32:21]
Matt
 Good question.

[00:40:32:21 - 00:40:44:02]
Chris
 Yeah, it is a good question. Actually, I have quite a few thoughts. I'll try to be succinct in this, but we didn't understand for the majority, large majority of human history,

[00:40:46:05 - 00:40:51:21]
Chris
 people only knew what was happening in pretty much their relative immediate context.

[00:40:53:06 - 00:41:04:12]
Chris
 Okay, and so I think you can even make an argument that the human mind was not created for us to understand what's going on 5,000 miles away.

[00:41:05:18 - 00:41:29:20]
Chris
 So there's A, that, and then B, I think it's inarguable that our mind is not made to be able to comprehend or to be able to grasp like all of these different tragedies and crises, like we've got, am I really supposed to, you know, be able to be thinking about what's going on in Venezuela, Ukraine,

[00:41:31:00 - 00:41:32:23]
Chris
 Iran, Israel?

[00:41:34:00 - 00:41:34:08]
Chris
 Mexico?

[00:41:35:18 - 00:41:41:09]
Chris
 So what's going on in those countries now? Right, no, no, but like,

[00:41:42:16 - 00:41:45:19]
Chris
 and it's just more and more and more and more.

[00:41:47:05 - 00:41:49:20]
Brenton
 More, we're expected to have an opinion on all of those issues.

[00:41:49:20 - 00:42:05:20]
Chris
 Right, right, and to be able to know, like to process like who exactly is telling the truth and what is the right story, and our media actually even then manufactures stuff more and more and stuff that's not, why are we making a big deal out of that?

[00:42:07:02 - 00:42:58:13]
Chris
 And I say that to recognize that, I'm not saying like we as American citizens shouldn't be informed about what's going on in Russia, especially if our, you know, governments get involved in our soldiers, or maybe gonna be involved there, and all that kind of stuff. And like we just say we're gonna pull back and not be involved in politics. I'm not saying that whatsoever. I just think we've gotta recognize that we need to, live within limits and understand like there's some things that we're, some things that we're gonna need to, and it's gonna be okay like for us to process and to think about and all that kind of stuff, but we can't expect ourselves to be knowledgeable and engage and to think about all of these kind of things. And you know, like, here's a great example, when the Ukraine war started, like we're all like, let's pray for Ukraine and all that. That's three years ago.

[00:42:59:16 - 00:43:07:06]
Chris
 We're not even thinking about it anymore. And so we might feel bad about that, but it's the reality. We just do not have the bandwidth to be able to do that.

[00:43:08:10 - 00:43:30:09]
Chris
 And I think the danger is, is where we get so consumed with all of that stuff is that like, we're not, all of a sudden we're not consumed with Christ and our attention is off of him. And so it's not to say that we don't care about what's going on in Iran and we don't, you know, try to discern like what is that and keep up to date on that, but it's got to be,

[00:43:31:17 - 00:43:33:03]
Chris
 it's just got to be limits on that.

[00:43:34:14 - 00:43:39:19]
Matt
 And I would just add the fact that we have access to so that, to all of that information.

[00:43:42:09 - 00:43:56:00]
Matt
 And then we have absolutely nothing we can do with that. It's a good distraction from dealing with the things that maybe we do have some responsibility and control of that we don't want to deal with. That's a great point, Matt.

[00:43:57:16 - 00:44:08:15]
Matt
 It's really convenient to see it all the problems and know we can't do anything about it, but it's fun to know about it. But maybe we put that down and deal with some issues in our own home.

[00:44:10:02 - 00:44:42:14]
Chris
 Quit reading my mind. No, but that's really good. It's interesting that you say that because like I've stopped paying attention to a lot of that kind of stuff because it's actually the opposite. It's not that I'm, I mean, I guess there is some interest in them and I'm like, I can't, like it's too much. Like it's overwhelming for me to think about, I need to be concerned about all this. I need to be praying for all of this. And like, I'm sorry, but I just have limits. And the more that I do, I get you get, like it actually does something to your mind and your heart that I think is, it can be really unhealthy.

[00:44:43:16 - 00:44:43:23]
Matt
 Yeah.

[00:44:45:19 - 00:45:37:06]
Chris
 Like, I mean, it just, it's enough for me. And I would just speak at the church, like we've got, like, how about all of our field staff? Like, are we concerned, are we concerned and praying for them and like, then their places, like that, and that's a lot, just in that cell. And so it's not that we don't care about the, what's going on in Iran and we've got believers, like we got brothers and sisters there and like, and all of that, but that's also, you know, I really would say the Bible, like so we talk about Iranian, like Christians being thrown in jail, like Hebrews actually said, you know, we pray for those who are in chains, remember those who are in chains. Are we thinking about Iran because we're this political controversy, like we and all that, are we like thinking about what's happening to the church there?

[00:45:39:06 - 00:45:43:18]
Chris
 And how is what our president might be doing going to impact the church?

[00:45:46:19 - 00:45:46:22]
Chris
 Yep.

[00:45:48:04 - 00:45:49:11]
Chris
 Is that where you thought we were gonna go?

[00:45:49:11 - 00:45:52:07]
Brenton
 Yeah, it's all good. I could keep going, but I won't.

[00:45:52:07 - 00:45:52:13]
Chris
 Yeah.

[00:45:54:05 - 00:46:17:10]
Brenton
 Okay, let's end with this one. So you did, I think your last of the five things that you mentioned was scripture, right? And that's, you know, it's a primary means by which the spirit renews our mind, right? So for someone who often feels overwhelmed by, you know, their lack of scripture time, or,

[00:46:18:21 - 00:46:35:22]
Brenton
 you know, just a lot of times it can be hard to stick to a plan, right? So how, can you guys give me just an easy way to get into this? Like what, Matt, what would you suggest to someone who just doesn't spend time in scripture? Maybe they've tried a lot

[00:46:36:23 - 00:46:44:12]
Brenton
 and they just can't seem to stick with anything consistent. Like what do you have for someone in that position?

[00:46:46:03 - 00:46:47:21]
Matt
 Well, I think, you know,

[00:46:49:05 - 00:47:19:00]
Matt
 I think you have to address someone's attitude towards God's word and what's keeping them from having a desire to be in God's word. I think, you know, James talks about, you know, receiving with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. So if, in a sense of like he's talking about, you know, is there a meekness that you're receiving God's word? And, because it's gonna change your life.

[00:47:20:06 - 00:47:55:18]
Matt
 But if you don't think that God's word's got anything to offer you, there's an arrogance there that's keeping someone from opening up the word. Now, I can't make anybody wanna get in the word, okay? I can point them to that, actually assign homework and there's devotionals to just start it and getting that routine. But they're gonna have to see the benefits and the fruits of that and God's word's gonna have to, and it gonna have to do a work in that. But I would tell you, if you're not gonna get in God's word, God's not gonna transform your life.

[00:47:57:23 - 00:47:58:08]
Matt
 It's just,

[00:47:59:09 - 00:48:23:12]
Matt
 I don't have anything better to offer and if I can't get them or God can't get them to do that, and I just say that, it's just, you know, there's a, and so listening to sermons, going to church, getting a hunger, developing a hunger for that, all of those things, having people encourage you to do that is good, but you know, there's,

[00:48:24:13 - 00:48:28:15]
Matt
 you gotta sit down and you just have to, and I don't really care where they read.

[00:48:30:04 - 00:48:30:05]
 (Laughs)

[00:48:30:05 - 00:48:50:12]
Matt
 Honestly, I mean, there's some places that I would direct you more than others, but like, there's just really, you know, it's just a, it's a really, a battle of like, are you teachable? Are you humble enough? Because pride keeps a lot of people out of God's word.

[00:48:52:04 - 00:48:55:19]
Matt
 And I'll be honest, sometimes pride and arrogance keeps me out of the word some days.

[00:48:58:05 - 00:49:02:23]
Matt
 It's dangerous for too long. Yeah, so, sorry.

[00:49:04:17 - 00:49:09:17]
Chris
 Yeah, I know that's really good. I would just maybe add a couple of things.

[00:49:11:16 - 00:49:41:16]
Chris
 This is a real struggle, like, because I hear this on a regular basis, I'm not in the counseling room nearly as much as Matt is, but I think I would encourage people like, can you start doing it with other people? This is where the community aspect comes back in. And yes, it's great to study the word on our own and get in on our own, and that's something we should all strive for. But you may need somebody to help you to learn how to do that.

[00:49:42:23 - 00:50:16:17]
Chris
 And it might be just really helpful to be doing it with other people. There's power in that. I would also encourage, and this is something else that we can struggle with, but, you know, to pray. Like, I love Psalm 86, 11, "Teach me your way, O Lord, "that I may walk in your truth. "Unite my heart to fear your name." And so it's back to what Matt's talking about. It was like, my heart's not fearing your name, because if we fear his name, like we're gonna want to be in his word. So my heart's not there. And so what are you gonna do? Well, I think a lot of times we just say, like, well, my heart's not there, so I ain't doing it.

[00:50:17:20 - 00:50:18:23]
Chris
 Like, that's it.

[00:50:20:21 - 00:50:31:05]
Chris
 God hasn't given me a heart. Sometimes we even blame him, I think. And so instead of saying, okay, God, like, my heart's not there, I don't want to. Just tell him, he knows you don't want to.

[00:50:32:16 - 00:50:36:20]
Chris
 You know, it's not saying, oh, shocker. I didn't realize that.

[00:50:38:12 - 00:50:46:18]
Chris
 But to say, like, Lord, this is where I'm at, but I, and so I need you to teach me, I need you to show me, I need you to help me.

[00:50:47:22 - 00:50:50:22]
Chris
 And then the last thing is like,

[00:50:51:22 - 00:51:08:01]
Chris
 I think sometimes we get these big ambitions and we feel bad if we can't like read five chapters a day and all that. And especially at the beginning, you know, you gotta start, maybe you start small. Maybe it's a proverb. There's 31 proverbs, read one a day,

[00:51:09:07 - 00:51:19:03]
Chris
 or read a small passage and reflect and just meditate on it and take five minutes, take 10 minutes. And so really, I think consistency,

[00:51:21:10 - 00:51:23:18]
Chris
 it's a habit, like you gotta develop a habit.

[00:51:27:00 - 00:51:48:21]
Chris
 And again, this is back to, there's even, like there's brain science in this and there are mind in this is like, we need new pathways to develop. So that it just becomes like part of our lives. And the more that that becomes a part of a life, I think like I've just discovered the more I get out of it.

[00:51:51:01 - 00:51:51:07]
Matt
 Yeah,

[00:51:52:20 - 00:52:36:04]
Matt
 I think that's a good one. Just thinking of this is one time I remember counseling a young dad and just have our time getting in the Word. And I challenged him, I said, read this chapter and then talk to your kids about what, just to give them a little motivation of like, and that resonated with him. Like, it was a little intimidating, but like it wasn't just reading it to cross it off. It was actually, I said, you wanna be a dad who would teach God's Word to your kids. So that was just something that would, trying to look for ways to what would motivate or even again, talk to somebody about what you're learning.

[00:52:37:17 - 00:52:43:05]
Matt
 Sometimes even coming back and talking to them with them in the counseling room. But yeah, it's,

[00:52:44:09 - 00:53:06:16]
Matt
 and I also have heard stories of like, they didn't wanna be in the Word till life got really tough. I've heard a husband who just had a really, really big fight with his wife and he went in the other room. He said, I got out my Bible and I started reading it. Like God will get you there, you know?

[00:53:07:22 - 00:53:08:18]
Matt
 He was desperate.

[00:53:10:03 - 00:53:12:03]
Matt
 And so, yeah.

[00:53:13:22 - 00:53:17:13]
Matt
 Maybe I can't, but God can. Praise the Lord for that.

[00:53:18:21 - 00:53:24:20]
Brenton
 Well, cool. That was a lot of fun guys. Thanks for a lot of wisdom in this room. So I appreciate it.

[00:53:25:22 - 00:53:28:08]
Brenton
 Yeah, like we talked about at the beginning,

[00:53:29:16 - 00:53:38:05]
Brenton
 coming into the family series next week. So looking forward to that. And if you do have any questions, ask it for thepodcast.com. Talk to you next week.

[00:53:39:07 - 00:53:42:08]
 (Upbeat Music)