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Brenton
 Welcome back to Further. I am Brenton Grimm. We've got a full room today.

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Brenton
 Starting on my left, I guess, we've got Nathan Williams. You preached in Burlington.

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Brenton
 Matt Mitchell, Fort Madison. Hello. And Andrew Weis in Danville. So welcome, guys. Thanks for coming.

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Nathan
 Thank you.

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Brenton
 Nathan Takersley's down there, too. I can't leave him out.

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Brenton
 But yeah, appreciate all of your guys' work.

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Brenton
 And we kind of have a short timeline today, so I just want to hop straight into it.

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Brenton
 Maybe I'll start with you, Nathan. But this question is for all of you. As you prepped for the week, what stood out to you the most? What did you walk away with?

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Nathan
 Yeah, it was-- well, John says it there in his purpose statement. It's all about believing. Everything he is writing the whole way through the gospel of John is so that we'll believe. And he really wraps it up with a great example of Thomas's, first of all, unbelief, but then how he came to believe. So again, our whole series called Believe kind of was brought together, I thought, in this. It's like, here is what real belief is. And what do you really, really believe? What are you believing? And the importance of what you believe.

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Brenton
 Yeah.

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Brenton
 Good. What about you, Matt?

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Matt
 Yeah, very similar. I mean, I think my wife, Olivia, pointed out

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Matt
 the text says believe maybe like six times that we got assigned to us, and just kind of what Nathan was saying, and really finding comfort myself in scripture again, and specifically the gospel of John, and why John was writing this so that Matt Mitchell can believe and everyone else.

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Matt
 I'm preparing for a sermon, but I'm reading these words. And I've been in the Believe series since the beginning as a pastor and a member of this church. And it's encouraging just to read and take John at his word because it's God's word. And by the Holy Spirit, that's how we lay hold of Christ.

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Nathan
 I'm going to go a little bit different direction here.

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Nathan
 I don't know if it's less spiritual, but one thing that I really chewed on and kind of laughed at, groaned at as I was studying is just the comments on Thomas and the criticism of Thomas, how hard we are on Thomas.

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Nathan
 I think two or three of the commentaries I read, one of the first things they said was-- and I couldn't tell if it was tongue in cheek or not. It didn't seem that way. See, this is why getting to church every Sunday is so important. You might miss out on something huge. You know, just kind of like-- and I'm like, that's what you guys are leading with? It wasn't with them the first time.

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Matt
 He neglected to gather.

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Nathan
 Right. Yeah, exactly. And it was kind of-- I was like--

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Nathan
 it was an interesting point for them to make, but it kind of seemed to be a strong emphasis. I was like, that is not-- to your guys' point, that is not the emphasis of this passage, is on church attendance or anything like that, or getting to church on time.

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Nathan
 But it was kind of interesting to dig into some of that, just kind of like,

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Nathan
 why did the disciples decide they needed to gather on both Sundays?

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Nathan
 And was there some kind of precedent for that? Or was there a direction from Jesus to Mary that wasn't in the story, but still made that they were all there or intended to be there?

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Nathan
 Thomas certainly missed whether he knew about it, didn't know about it, should have been there, shouldn't have been there. Maybe he was sick. Who knows?

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Nathan
 But it was just-- so it was just something that stuck out to me, was all the speculation, and maybe even somewhat, as I'm now distracting from the main point of it being about belief. And so that just kind of stood out to me. Sometimes we can make these passages too complex and miss the most important thing.

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Brenton
 As a pastor, you should really be able to tie anything to church attendance, right?

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Brenton
 Right.

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Nathan
 Exactly.

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Brenton
 You got into there, but you missed an opportunity here.

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Brenton
 So I guess for structure here, I want to start with just some individual questions, and we'll kind of wrap things up with some that'll apply to all of you. But Matt,

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Brenton
 you framed Thomas as not there, not just intellectually, but emotionally and spiritually.

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Brenton
 First, can you explain what was your thesis here for anyone that didn't hear it? But then also, how do you see that play out today as a pastor?

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Matt
 Yeah, so I mean, the three main movements in the passage that I just summarized was not there, Jesus there, not there, Thomas didn't believe.

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Matt
 And then Jesus comes into the picture. He's the change agent, and then he does believe. And I used that several times throughout my passage. Really, I just used it because I'm just trying to preach to my congregation, and I was just thinking, what's going to help people be there, get it, and walk away with it? But yeah, when you asked,

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Matt
 how do I see this today, with people not being there, is that your question, is it Britain?

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Brenton
 Yeah, right.

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Matt
 Yeah, I mean, I see it in all sorts of ways.

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Matt
 I think the most frustrating thing is when you see somebody who's not there. Maybe they're a professing believer, but you don't see the fruit in their life, or you just don't see their heart warmed by the things of God. Or you just know, they're not a professing believer. They're an atheist. Or I just know they're not a Christian.

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Matt
 We can plant seeds, and we can water, like Paul says.

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Matt
 And is it 1 Corinthians? Yeah, 1 Corinthians, God gives the growth. And so sometimes we don't see that growth, and we want to see it, and that can be frustrating. But also reminding myself, ourselves, that all of us, once upon a time, were not there, and we were in unbelief. And we didn't understand the gospel. Maybe we grew up in a church home. Maybe we didn't. But it was like, OK, there's hope for everybody, because we are saved now by grace. And Thomas was one of the 12, and he had this unbelief in his heart and belief. So yeah,

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Matt
 not in our time frame, but in God's. And God can change any hard heart.

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Brenton
 The other thing that I had for you is you gave a lot of possible reasons for Thomas's doubt,

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Brenton
 fear, disappointment, frustration.

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Brenton
 How important would you say it is for us to identify why we're doubting? Like with the reason behind the doubt, instead of just identifying that we are, and kind of sitting in that? Sure.

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Matt
 Yeah, it's a great question. I think it's very important to discern with the help of others, but certainly with the Lord,

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Matt
 why we are where we're at.

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Matt
 This is kind of anecdotal, but it's been my experience, personally, when I'm struggling, or with others. Often it's not an intellectual thing, but it's some sort of other frustration or hurt, or somebody's like, "I've got all these doubts about Christianity, I don't go to church anymore." And it's like, "Well, let's talk about that." And you dig into the story and it's like, they really had an issue with a person, or they were hurt or frustrated with mom or dad, or had a bad pastor or something. It's like, "Well, that's not about the Bible or about Christ." And then you can get back into a conversation and try to redirect that. But for me personally, it's like, sometimes I think I'm struggling my walk with the Lord, but I've just had a super exhausting busy week. And I'm like, placing that on my Christianity and my security in Christ. And it's like, I just need to take a nap and have a day of rest and take some deep breaths.

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Matt
 And I'm not having these doubts, like I think I am. I'm just kind of a fickle person who's having a hard day. So I'd be curious what the other guys think about that.

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Nathan
 But a lot of it is personal, but let's not take the enemy out of the picture either.

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Brenton
 Yeah, that's a good point too.

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Nathan
 I mean, right from Genesis chapter three,

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Nathan
 Satan is one who loves to put doubt. Did God really say? You know what I mean?

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Matt
 Right.

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Nathan
 So I'll tell you what, he wants to throw every kind of false religion, every kind of doubt, every kind of, he will distract us from the truth every time he can and he's real.

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Nathan
 And he wants us to doubt. So I think that's a big part of it too. Absolutely.

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Nathan
 Yeah, I would agree guys. I think that,

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Nathan
 to Nathan, your point, there's so many things out there enticing us to doubt.

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Nathan
 So many theories online and ideas. And the ironic thing is a lot of them aren't even new. They're just recirculated in new packaging for our generation. And some of them go back as far as first century, when all these things were happening and some of the rumors and tricks that were being thrown around then.

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Nathan
 And some of it's just a lack of knowledge, some ignorance on the part of believers or those close to the church. And I think for us, that gives us an opportunity to dig in ourselves and know what some of those challenges are to the resurrection or the Bible

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Nathan
 and kind of have some go-to tools or explanations for some of those more basic, simple, like just reliability of scripture. And just the fact that the Bible we have today is the Bible they had in the first century.

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Nathan
 Just having some ammunition like that to refute some really simple things that I think people in our culture kind of uses their go-to excuse

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Nathan
 when these types of conversations are had.

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Nathan
 And there really is a lot of good, kind of scientific evidence to refute some simple claims.

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Nathan
 We just need to know them and remind ourselves of them so that they're ready when the opportunity comes up.

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Brenton
 Yeah, okay, good. Yeah, we'll get back to some of that a little later. But Andrew,

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Brenton
 you specifically push back on the label Doubting Thomas, which most of us are familiar with, like that's what we kind of associate Thomas with.

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Brenton
 But you said that he's actually an unbelief. And really your point was that Doubting kind of gives this excuse of neutrality, right? So why do you think that distinction is so important to start out here?

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Nathan
 Yeah, so yeah, I think Doubting Thomas, it's catchy, it's easy to remember.

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Nathan
 But at the same time, I think it does take the edge off of what he said. And he said, "Unless I see the risen Christ, "unless I touch his scars, his hands and his side, "I will not believe."

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Nathan
 And that's a very emphatic dug in position.

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Nathan
 And just taking him at his word, it's like, "Okay, well, you don't believe then. "You don't believe in the resurrection of Christ." And that's vital, that's essential to salvation, is believing in not just the death of Christ, but his resurrection, because that's the validation,

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Nathan
 the acceptance of God the Father that the payment was sufficient, right? It's, there's victory in the resurrection and so not just in his death. And so I think that's why it's important to maybe make that distinction. I don't think that necessarily wrong in calling it Doubting, but, or calling him Doubting Thomas. But I do think that,

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Nathan
 a lot of us do have doubts about things and I don't wanna paint the picture that if you have doubts, you're not saved or anything like that. But I think there is this wavering or this uncertainty idea behind doubt.

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Nathan
 And as just taking Thomas at his word, he was not there. He was just like, "Nope, I will not believe." I will not believe. It was kind of this ongoing future, I need this proof in order to believe.

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Nathan
 And I also just, on top of that, I just think that there are a lot of people there

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Nathan
 in our culture that they just need a little more. They just want a little more or they think they do. And they just think if I just had a little, or they're convincing themselves maybe, or maybe that's just the excuse they give others.

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Nathan
 They know their own heart and mind, but there's a lot out there if they're really willing to go investigate it. Sure. But I think for people like that,

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Nathan
 how much more? How much more do you need?

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Nathan
 What else is gonna convince you? And you can give them some great evidence, but I don't know for some if it'll ever be enough.

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Nathan
 And outside of a work of the spirit, it won't be enough as well. So that's another reality to that.

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Brenton
 So I guess given that, how does that change the way that we evangelize to those people?

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Nathan
 Yeah, I think an important thing we need to do when we share the gospel is to invite people to believe and challenge people to believe. And I know I'm guilty of sharing the gospel and kind of letting it hang,

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Nathan
 sharing the gospel and letting people think on it. And not that that's bad,

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Nathan
 but I do think scripture calls us to invite people

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Nathan
 to believe it in that moment when we're sharing it. And so I think that's something

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Nathan
 I think would be a good practice for all of us is when we're sharing the faith,

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Nathan
 take that extra step to challenge people to believe.

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Nathan
 Make sure they know, like you do need to make a decision on this. And a lack of decision is a decision to not believe in that moment.

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Nathan
 But I think, yeah, just kind of letting it hang there gives people an easy out and putting the decision before them,

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Nathan
 not necessarily puts, it puts positive pressure on them, I guess, but makes them realize this is serious. And there is a choice that needs to be made here.

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Brenton
 Yeah, it's good.

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Brenton
 All right, Nathan,

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Brenton
 you highlighted the word my in Thomas' statement and he said, my Lord and my God.

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Brenton
 So, your point here is that like he took that as a personal, that relationship was personal to him and it wasn't just him acknowledging facts.

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Brenton
 What would you say the difference between acknowledging truth about Jesus and actually submitting to him?

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Nathan
 That's good. Yeah, so you hear a lot of people saying, oh, I have a personal relationship with Jesus. Or do you have a personal relationship with Jesus? A lot of times, what does that even mean? But this is very personal, it's so personal.

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Nathan
 If you say, this is my kid,

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Nathan
 this kid belongs to me. I'm taking responsibility for my kids as actions, whether they're good or bad.

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Nathan
 Right, so this is my kid,

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Nathan
 as opposed to, oh, this is Andrew's kid or whatever. It's like, you know what?

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Nathan
 Yeah, it's a kid, but it's not my kid and I'm not responsible for that. But when you're taking responsibility,

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Nathan
 taking that is my Lord. And let's just take them one at a time. So my Lord, that lordship means you have control. I belong to you. And whatever you say, because you're my Lord, I should obey that, right? And then my God, that brings it even to another whole level because we call our Lord knowing that he's God. But to actually say that specifically, my God is claiming the deity right now. We can know that there is a God.

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Nathan
 You know, the Bible even says that, James says that, you know what I mean? The demons believe and shudder, right? We can know that he's God, but to say he's my God means to say, that's who I worship.

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Nathan
 It's that belonging thing, just like my kid belongs to me.

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Nathan
 I belong to God and I'm acknowledging that. It says, and we put ourselves under his authority to say, no, this is what I want. This is a choice I've got to make, you know what I mean? Do I want to be under his authority or not? You know what I mean? And I know we can get into a whole other thing, you know, the spirit calls us to that, right? But at the same time,

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Nathan
 let's not take off the responsibility that we have is either to reject Christ or to accept him. And when we accept him, we're like, no, this is my Lord

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Nathan
 and my God. And then of course, if I take that,

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Nathan
 I better start acting like it because this changes the whole scenario. I shouldn't be able to say, my Lord, my God, and just carry right on the way I have been as if he wasn't because if I do,

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Nathan
 then my words mean absolutely nothing.

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Brenton
 Yeah. Well, that was kind of my follow-up is like, what are some signs of someone that believes, like the factually like write things about Jesus, but hasn't actually made him Lord?

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Nathan
 Yeah, because the evidence is so clear. I talked to a mom this morning who, I know her and her son and our son is very athletic. He's involved in sports and baseball and track and everything else. And she says, oh yeah. She told me this morning, she says, yeah, he was born with a club foot. And I'm like, what? You know what I mean? But he's so athletic. She said, oh yeah, he had casted and surgeries and everything else when he was little. Well, the evidence is that he had the surgeries, that the doctors actually did something.

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Nathan
 There was a radical change. So again, keeping with John, you know what I mean? He says, you know what? If this is real, well, first of all, I closed with this verse. I write these things to you who believe, there's that word in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. Now, how do you know if there's evidence of a change, if you have really made him my Lord and my God? And there's just so much in this, you know what I mean? So in 1 John, keeping with John, but in 1 John, it really hammers his home. In 1 John chapter one, verse eight, he says, if we claim to be without sin, or let's just go on down to verse nine. If we, no, that's, yeah, yeah.

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Nathan
 Verse six, if we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in darkness, we lie and the truth is not in us. So there you go. It's so true. Let's go over to chapter three. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, right? So I'm going a couple of verses. So how do we know? How do we know?

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Nathan
 Verse 10, this is how we know, right? Is there a change? This is how we know. Who is the children of God and who are the children of the devil?

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Nathan
 Anyone who does not do what is right is a child of God. And anyone who, let me see the really thing. Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. So if we claim that Jesus is Lord and God, we keep hating each other. It's like your words mean absolutely nothing.

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Nathan
 The point of this is if we really believe, if we say, Jesus, you are my Lord and my God, everything within me will want to please him because we want to honor him as my Lord and my God. That's not saying we're going to mess up when we're good, but as 1 John 1.9 says, but if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just forgives our sins and cleanses from all unrighteousness. So it's that constantly when I do mess up to keep going back to him, as opposed to someone who has no desire to follow God, it's like, hey, you can call him my Lord and my God, but he's not really. Does that make sense?

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Brenton
 Yeah, it feels like there's a few different categories of people that we're talking about here. One is like what you're talking about where they'll confess or profess faith, but their life looks nothing like it should under the Lordship of Christ, right?

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Nathan
 No change.

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Brenton
 There's others that, I think there's true believers that do struggle with doubt. I think that that's probably more common than we talk about.

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Brenton
 And then there's kind of what Andrew was talking about, the people that don't profess because they don't have enough evidence.

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Brenton
 Pastorally, I guess I'd like to talk about

[00:25:53:05 - 00:26:08:06]
Brenton
 how to deal with some of those. So, like what you were just talking about where you have someone that professes faith but isn't living like it. Pastorally, how do you guys deal with something like that?

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Nathan
 Going back quite a few years ago, there was a man just exactly like you talked about, grew up in the church, knew everything, but not living like it. And I call him out on it. Straight out call him out on it. You know what I mean? And he came to the place where, in fact, he didn't like it. He did not like it. And he says, "Of course I know."

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Nathan
 He told me why he knew and he gave the right answers. A couple of years later, he came back to me and he says,

[00:26:37:08 - 00:27:00:04]
Nathan
 "I finally trusted in Jesus, really trusted in Jesus." He says, "I was going working off a prayer or what I'd said or what I knew mentally, but I had never really acknowledged Jesus as my Lord of my God." And the guy got saved. And this is at like 50 years of age.

[00:27:01:04 - 00:27:32:15]
Nathan
 But, and it's hard when you're calling someone out. But somebody, sometimes we have people who go to our church, who you know, it's like, "Hey, I'm a Christian. I'm going to Harmony Bible Church." But they're living like the devil in the community. It's like, "Dude, come on, we need to have a chat here. Are you really saved?" And we're not doing a many papers by saying, "Hey, oh, I know you're a Christian. Yeah, praise God. Love you." And letting them carry on like that. You know what I mean? So in a way it's really hard. It's really hard to do that.

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Brenton
 I think in some ways, you know, somebody could be worried about scaring them off, right? So like if we address an issue, a sin issue, like are they better off being here and not being offended or being out there and just being mad at the church, right? So I think there's a lot of,

[00:27:52:02 - 00:27:56:16]
Brenton
 and they just come down to excuses probably for us why we don't address sin.

[00:27:56:16 - 00:28:57:01]
Nathan
 Right, but we've been called to be ambassadors. For sure. And if we see a so-called ambassador who's not being an ambassador, he's being more of an ambassador for the devil than he is of Jesus. You know what I mean? It's like, I think it's our duty to call them out. And that's never, never comfortable. And it's something I will just go around and around before I actually do it. But if I know I need to do it, I will do it. And nine times out of 10, it works out good because the person, they needed that and they'll thank you for it and they'll be convicted of that. And I'm like, oh my goodness, why didn't I just do this earlier? No. So as pastorally, it's hard. It's not easy. It's hard. But I think we're called to do that and calls in what it is. And maybe they just had walked away for a while and they just needed that reminders like, yeah, I am an ambassador. I haven't been living like this. Thanks for calling me back to this. And they get back into it again.

[00:28:57:01 - 00:28:58:14]
Brenton
 Any thoughts, guys?

[00:29:00:02 - 00:29:09:12]
Matt
 Yeah, I was just gonna say, just to put even some more flesh on that, I think Nathan's spot on. Like if there's this person who's straying,

[00:29:10:13 - 00:29:28:03]
Matt
 the Lord has put us in their path to be a friend, to be a family member, maybe somebody that can speak into them. I would just say, be super prayerful about it. Speak the truth and love, like so that they love you. And then also,

[00:29:29:03 - 00:29:30:23]
Matt
 I think this gets overlooked sometimes too.

[00:29:33:06 - 00:30:04:19]
Matt
 Also make Christ the hero and not ourselves. Like, hey, I'm calling you to do what I'm doing. And Paul does say, follow me as I follow Christ. But in this particular scenario, they might just need to know that you're not a Pharisee looking down your nose at them, but that Jesus is your savior too. And he died for your sin too. And just kind of just like making the ground level again. Like I'm here because I love you, but I'm concerned. And it's really shining the light.

[00:30:04:19 - 00:30:10:08]
Brenton
 That's important because it needs to stay restorative. Like our goal needs to be to restore those people.

[00:30:10:08 - 00:30:35:08]
Nathan
 Yeah. Can I just say too, we gotta be really careful with this too. You know what I mean? Cause I mean, we're called to look at the logon right before we look at the speck in our brothers. It's not like we just want to go around calling people out on this. You know what I mean? So it's a very delicate thing to do. And we need to be very humble and recognizing that we are sinners too. Only for the grace of God that we can do anything good.

[00:30:36:10 - 00:30:49:16]
Nathan
 And I would just say, agree. We need to approach these things prayerfully. Speaking the truth in love full of grace. And I think that's where,

[00:30:50:20 - 00:31:05:10]
Nathan
 working on relationships all the time and being in a good place with people all the time and making sure they know that you love them and you're speaking to them and out of their best interest, best eternal interest.

[00:31:06:11 - 00:31:34:14]
Nathan
 And I think that goes a long way with people. If they know you're committed to them and love them and care for them, that truth that you're speaking to them, that relationship can bear that weight. I think sometimes these things go poorly because we may even be trying to speak the truth in love, but we're doing it with somebody maybe we haven't built that relational capital with.

[00:31:35:14 - 00:31:51:11]
Nathan
 And I'm not saying the Lord can't use it. Sometimes things need to be said, even if somebody better might be the one to say it, maybe they're not saying it. And so you need to be the one to do it. But I think when possible,

[00:31:52:16 - 00:32:04:01]
Nathan
 we need to get the right people having those conversations. We're included in those conversations. So that person isn't feeling immediately attacked or judged,

[00:32:05:10 - 00:32:07:23]
Nathan
 but they really are feeling loved in that correction.

[00:32:07:23 - 00:32:11:18]
Brenton
 For sure. Yeah, that's good. All right, so we got a couple of minutes left.

[00:32:13:08 - 00:32:24:04]
Brenton
 Let's wrap up with the other category of people I talked about, people that we would consider a part of the body, brothers and sisters, but are struggling with some doubts.

[00:32:25:20 - 00:32:33:15]
Brenton
 How do you address that? I know it's very nonspecific, but just generally as a pastor, how would you go about addressing that?

[00:32:35:22 - 00:32:40:02]
Nathan
 One thing I love about even just from our passage and Thomas is he,

[00:32:41:13 - 00:32:45:20]
Nathan
 call it unbelief, call it doubt. He still shows up the next week with the disciples

[00:32:46:20 - 00:33:05:03]
Nathan
 and is engaging with them. And there's friendship there and there's other connections besides what the current circumstances involve. But I would just say, don't pull away, lean in. And if you're going through doubts,

[00:33:06:12 - 00:33:13:15]
Nathan
 lean into your church community, seek out people in your community group, your family who are believers,

[00:33:14:20 - 00:33:16:12]
Nathan
 pastors, elders.

[00:33:18:10 - 00:33:20:15]
Nathan
 Don't pull away and try to figure it out on your own.

[00:33:22:01 - 00:33:22:23]
Nathan
 Seek community.

[00:33:25:01 - 00:33:30:22]
Nathan
 Because there are a lot of crazy ideas out there that can sound pretty convincing,

[00:33:32:12 - 00:34:13:20]
Nathan
 especially when you're already in a place of hurt, like Matt was talking about at the beginning. You're already hurting or something happened or somebody said something and you misinterpreted or not. And you get away and you start doing your own research and you're just kind of on your own. Pretty soon, a week turns into a month and a month turns into a year. And you've convinced yourself of all these things based on a weak foundation. And I just love it when people come to me with questions and I know I've had to go to others with questions throughout my life and just be like, "Hey, am I crazy?"

[00:34:14:23 - 00:34:21:16]
Nathan
 Like, "Help me process this. I just, I don't know what to do here. I'm not sure what I believe about this."

[00:34:22:17 - 00:34:28:16]
Nathan
 And there's always stuff, even in recent years, there's stuff happening in our culture and I'm just scratching my head going,

[00:34:29:16 - 00:34:46:09]
Nathan
 "I don't know if I have a biblical way to approach this. Can you help me?" And I've had brothers in Christ go, "Yeah, let's dig in here and let's talk about it." So even us pastors gotta do that sometimes and seek counsel and lean in and seek that community.

[00:34:46:09 - 00:34:47:02]
Brenton
 That's really good.

[00:34:48:10 - 00:34:53:19]
Nathan
 I think it's comforting to know that all the disciples, not just Thomas, they all doubt it.

[00:34:55:00 - 00:35:05:23]
Nathan
 And in the end, they were okay. They worked through it. You know what I mean? They, well, of course, Jesus showed up to them, but Jesus can show up to us in so many ways, through His word and through, as you said,

[00:35:07:12 - 00:35:32:22]
Nathan
 Andrew, through other people pouring into us and helping us and figure things out. But you know what I mean? If we have a little bit of doubt from time to town, it's not the end of the world. And Jesus own disciples doubted it. And they ended up okay. So it's comforting to me to know that it's like, if I have a little bit of doubt for them, it's not the end of the world. You know what I mean? As long as I end up believing and trusting in who Jesus really is.

[00:35:32:22 - 00:35:57:17]
Matt
 Yeah, that's something I was trying to point out. It was drawn out from the text, but I just said in my message, Jesus isn't tough on weakness, but He's merciful. And we see that with Thomas and the rest of the disciples. And that's just how it is. He's not, you know, smack him around and rebuke him sharply. And can't believe you guys. Can't believe you, Thomas.

[00:35:59:20 - 00:36:02:16]
Matt
 He says, "Come to me, all who are weary and have you burdened, I'll give you rest."

[00:36:04:19 - 00:36:56:22]
Matt
 Beginning of Philippians says, "The one you started this good work in, you'll be faithful to complete it." And then one of my favorite benedictions at the end of a service is 1 Thessalonians 5, 23 and 24. "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." And then I love this part, "He who calls you is faithful, He will surely do it." And just as an encouragement of like, it's not us doing it, it's Him doing it. And it's just to rest in that. Like that's what it really means to be united to Christ is, it's His strength, not my strength. And if I doubt, He's merciful even in that doubt. And He's, I'm not gonna be there forever either, so.

[00:36:58:17 - 00:37:00:22]
Brenton
 Okay, good place to wrap up. Thanks guys,

[00:37:01:22 - 00:37:02:21]
Brenton
 I appreciate it.

[00:37:02:21 - 00:37:03:22]
Nathan
 Thank you for being here.

[00:37:03:22 - 00:37:10:03]
Brenton
 Yeah, for sure. If you guys have any questions, ask it for the podcast.com and we'll be back with Chris Carr next week.

[00:37:11:07 - 00:37:13:21]
 (Upbeat Music)