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Chris
 That's why we've got to know God's word. And my theology really, truly does matter.

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Chris
 Why I love to preach God's word and why I try to do it so passionately, because it's not just facts or things that don't really matter to the day-to-day of our lives. They literally matter in everything we do, every environment. We live every relationship that we are in.

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Brenton
 Welcome back to Further. I am Britton Grimm. Chris Carr, welcome.

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Chris
 It's good to be here. Thanks for the welcome. It's good to be here. You're so hospitable today.

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Brenton
 Yeah, wow. Welcome to my office.

[01:00:56:00 - 01:00:57:11]
Brenton
 Yeah, just came off of

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Brenton
 Sunday night with Geode and had 37 baptisms, which is an exciting time. And I think we talked about today that was our largest baptism

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Brenton
 in one place, at least. So yeah, it was an exciting weekend.

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Brenton
 And we're back into the short all-in series. So yeah, all right, let's get into this.

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Brenton
 One of the strongest lines from your sermon, or one that stuck out to me at least, was presence without purity leads to compromise. And then you also said purity without presence leads to ineffectiveness.

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Brenton
 Which side of that tension do you think that the American church has historically been more prone to get wrong?

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Chris
 I've actually been going back and forth on this question.

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Chris
 I think you could probably answer it either way and

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Chris
 be correct in some way.

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Chris
 I guess my leaning would be that historically now, this has not been true for a while. So I think you've got to go back a while for it to be historically. But it has been that we've been the purity without the

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Chris
 presence more.

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Chris
 And

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Chris
 I'm going back probably 30 years or so, because I believe in the last three decades, it's definitely switched to the other end of the spectrum, for sure. So I would say there is a

[01:02:39:07 - 01:02:53:08]
Chris
 minority in the American church that is airing on the purity without presence. But the majority now has shifted, in my opinion, maybe even strongly to presence without purity. I don't know, what do you think?

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Brenton
 Yeah, I don't know. It might be good to define what we actually mean by this.

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Brenton
 The purity without presence, you're really talking about people that would stay inside of the church, kind of separate themselves from the world and not really involve themselves in the world. Yeah, I think I might tend to agree with you, although I can see, like you said, both sides of this. Like there's always going to be people on both sides.

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Chris
 I mean, there certainly has been a movement to even withdraw from the kind of the public square. Is this like there have been people throwing up their hands in the air and said, like, we've lost. Like recently? Yeah, we've lost. And there's a book called The Benedict Option. And just, it was fairly influential. We've lost. And so there's no hope here for us to influence culture and so we just need to basically,

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Chris
 it's not monasteries, but we just need to hole up and do our best and take care of our own, so to speak.

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Chris
 But that's still a largely minority position.

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Brenton
 It's a pretty pessimistic view of the kingdom.

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Chris
 Yeah, but we

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Chris
 gotta be really careful here because there are some good aspects of, we do need to guard especially our children from the world. So how do we do that? What does that mean for things with education and

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Chris
 all that?

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Chris
 But to answer your question, I think that the other issue of people just, there being no visible difference between the world and the church, or between the world and people who call themselves Christian. And for so many people in American culture now, Christian is a label. It's not an actual, it's an identity that they assume, but they

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Chris
 really don't even believe the truth of the gospel. So they believe heretical things about whether it's Jesus or salvation, heaven and hell.

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Chris
 We're actually gonna talk about this when we get to September, but there's recently been a major study that's been done to examine the

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Chris
 doctrinal beliefs of American Christians or people who attend church. And it's pretty

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Chris
 alarming and concerning about what majority, I should say majority, but many, many Christian, a large percentage of people who go to church, call themselves Christians, what they actually believe

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Chris
 and they're in error. And these are not minor doctrines. So we actually are gonna talk about this as a church when we get to September, a little bit of a preview there.

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Chris
 And we're gonna actually try to, in some ways address that. So I think in some, I think that the big issue now is a, the biggest issue is this, we're present, there's no real difference in us or no visible difference that's actually going to make us salty people.

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Brenton
 Yeah, okay. You defined our saltiness as Christ-like character and conduct. Sometimes when Christians talk about influencing culture, we immediately think about politics or laws or institutions, but is that what Jesus has in mind here? Is it that and more? How would you define that?

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Chris
 Yeah, I think we should have a good discussion about this. I think it's pretty important. I didn't wanna take the time to address it on Sunday because I wanted to stay kind of big picture and not get too much into the weeds, but these are important weeds nonetheless. So let's just think about this. So

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Chris
 Jesus very clearly wasn't thinking

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Chris
 primarily or even maybe hardly at all about politics, laws, institutions, or cultural arguments.

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Chris
 And one of the reasons we know this is because we have no indication, almost no indication that he was concerned about any of those things.

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Chris
 In any of his teaching or any of his ministry, he said very little about these things. Now, the Apostle Paul says more about them, okay? And so it's not that they're, I'm not saying that they don't matter, but when Jesus is talking about saltiness, we cannot

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Chris
 think that first and foremost, he has cultural arguments and political wars and maneuvering. People

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Chris
 tried to get him into that and he just steadfastly refused. Here's this coin, do you give it to Caesar or not? And it would have Caesar, what has God? It's like, it's so, which made nobody happy,

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Chris
 which is kind of where you fall if you try to take the middle ground today. But

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Chris
 I just, so, and I'm asking again that Jesus doesn't care about these things because we know that he does because he, the Apostle Paul and Peter even addressed some of these things, but that cannot be what Jesus had in mind. And we've come to believe that largely out of what happened, the Christians, the churches kind of, especially the evangelical churches' response to

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Chris
 these issues coming out of like the late 70s and the early 80s when Jerry Falwell started the Moral Majority and then Pat Robertson started the Christian Coalition and Adops and started focus on the family. And the church turned to, they looked at culture coming out of the 60s and the 70s and said, oh boy, sexual revolution. And their answer to that

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Chris
 was politics.

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Chris
 And so we have been largely influenced to that to where we see now we're losing America and the way they get America back is

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Chris
 these things that you're bringing up. That's how we do it. That's how we influence culture. And that's just very clearly, I can't say it strongly enough, not what Jesus imagined. And quite frankly, if that,

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Chris
 any honest analysis will look at the Moral Majority, the Christian Coalition and to a lesser degree, the focus on the family approach has failed.

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Chris
 Yeah. Yeah,

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Chris
 so.

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Brenton
 Yeah, I guess I'm unfamiliar with the first two. Maybe I'm too young. Yeah. Do you remember focused on the family for sure?

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Chris
 Yeah, I mean. Who was it you said? Jerry Falwell. Okay. Okay. And then Pat Robertson was here. And then Pat Robertson followed up from that because the Moral Majority dissolved and then Pat Robertson kind of took up the mantle. But they were political organizations where they were trying to mobilize Christians to vote in certain ways and to influence. And they basically, both of those died out because they basically were enfolded into the Republican Party.

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Chris
 And I'm not saying that

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Chris
 those organizations, there weren't some good things that happened there, but

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Chris
 they basically then eventually got co-opted by

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Chris
 the Republican Party. So because the Republican Party learned that this is how we can get votes because we can appeal to people who are affiliated or they are these moral issues. So more, just think about the moral, just even that term there. And so again, I went to

[01:11:21:22 - 01:11:30:12]
Chris
 Liberty University. So I've personally met Jerry Falwell on a couple of occasions. In some ways I have high respect for him

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Chris
 because there are a lot of good things that he has done. I'd say less Pat Robertson.

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Chris
 But the problem is that this is our means is

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Chris
 politics and is voting and is changing laws. And I'm not saying any of that is wrong.

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Chris
 I'm not saying we shouldn't pursue that, but that's not our primary means.

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Brenton
 Well I think, just from what I think you're saying, what happens in those situations is it becomes a replacement for personal responsibility. So if my only responsibility in affecting culture is how I vote once every four years, does that fulfill my, I don't know. I don't know.

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Chris
 There's part of that, but there's also part of what happens is we look to politicians and politics laws as that's the power for change. And the ultimate power for change is the gospel is the only thing that can ultimately change people. Again,

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Chris
 so you take the abortion issue,

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Chris
 I'm so thankful for the many different organizations that have fought against abortion and have sought to see the laws of the land change. I mean, I've been involved in that like myself.

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Chris
 And so I'm all for that.

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Chris
 But those things don't ultimately change hearts.

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Chris
 Right, laws, politics, politicians. And what also can happen is then we can also end up compromising because, and quite frankly, we've seen this over the last decade is where we throw our hat in with people

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Chris
 who are

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Chris
 people that we just,

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Chris
 in my opinion, because they maybe agree with us or seem to agree with us, are gonna support

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Chris
 our certain position on something. We partner with them too closely in a way where we compromise, we've compromised ourselves. So we say that we believe in certain things like marriage and family and a certain position on sexual purity or whatever. And yet we

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Chris
 throw ourselves wholeheartedly in with a certain person or people. And what does that do to the,

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Chris
 what does that do to our witness to the world?

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Chris
 And we can win a battle and lose the war. And that's my

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Chris
 critique there.

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Brenton
 Yeah, I guess the only, maybe the, some of the counter argument would be that like

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Brenton
 the laws that are in place through

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Brenton
 scripture calls our leaders, ministers of the gospel, right? And I think that some of that is to preserve culture, right? Like laws and justice are in place for the same thing that we're talking about. So it is in part its purpose.

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Chris
 There is other ways that God actually preserves culture, a solid from Christians. Sure.

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Chris
 That's the way that he does, he's ordained government and all. So yes, I'm agreeing with you. But my whole point in this is that we look, like we look to that more than we look to. And so you're right, it does leave us off with personal responsibility because then I can just put it all on the government. And I just, all I have to do is vote or whatever. And that's not the ultimate means that God has called. And what we're gonna see this week is it's not, I broke it up on Sunday, but it's salt and light. He doesn't just say salt, we're not just the preservant. Salt really is the negative aspect and light's gonna be the positive aspect, but these are two together. And in some ways we are salt so that we have the opportunity to be light.

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Chris
 Does that make sense? I mean, it'll maybe make more sense after we look at the light of the world, but yeah.

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Brenton
 Okay, yeah, we can move on for now.

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Chris
 Well, you hit one of my

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Chris
 soapbox, but.

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Brenton
 That was even kind of coming up in my mind as I was preparing for this, because that was an argument I heard a lot through the 2024 elections was like, we need to preserve, we need to be the soul of the earth to preserve. And so that's why we need to vote a certain way to preserve culture, to pick the

[01:16:21:04 - 01:16:25:04]
Brenton
 less bad option. And yeah, that was on my mind as I was.

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Chris
 I don't on the face of it disagree with that argument.

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Chris
 Okay,

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Chris
 there is some validity to it, but the point with the purity here and the Christ-like character and conduct is that is the

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Chris
 means to actually affecting change and preserving it. And so if we're

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Chris
 voting and like, yes, yep, okay. But if that's all there is and we're not actually,

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Chris
 there's another passage in 1 Corinthians 4 where Paul talks about how we are the aroma of Christ to God

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Chris
 from one group of people to death to death and one people from life to life. And so

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Chris
 this is another metaphor. A question we had asked, how do you smell? And does

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Chris
 your life give off at a Roman which people are actually seeing Christ and who he is and his glory? Some people will be,

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Chris
 that'll drive them away, but some people they'll be attracted.

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Chris
 But that's

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Chris
 not up to us.

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Brenton
 Yeah, voting's a lot easier, Chris.

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Chris
 Yeah, well,

[01:17:49:22 - 01:17:50:08]
Chris
 maybe.

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Brenton
 All right,

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Brenton
 so like we talked about earlier, you know, so often we can get so involved in our church life and that it's kind of where we spend all of our time, right? So how can we hold that balance better? How can we be deeply involved in our church while still intentionally building like real relationships with unbelievers? What is that balance?

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Chris
 Yeah, I mean,

[01:18:19:18 - 01:18:30:21]
Chris
 it's a really great question. Probably they do better to get some other people in here who are outside of the church more than I am.

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Chris
 I think it's tough because, and I think in my experience, we're just gonna have to be okay with struggling with this and feeling the tension of how do I do both and am I spending too much time in church? Am I actually getting out among us unbelievers? I think one of the things is just to be intentional about like even at the times where we are

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Chris
 out and around, because we all are. So for example, like, I mean, my life is the church, okay?

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Chris
 And so in my responsibility, because of my responsibilities, I'm going to spend a lion's share of my time around

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Chris
 believers. And then there are unbelievers that come. So the unbelievers that I spend around, many of them are gonna be people who actually come to our services or ministries or things like that. But

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Chris
 so I have to maybe even work harder than the

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Chris
 average person simply because, I mean, like I'm responsible, one of the men, people responsible for the sheep here. So I've got to give my attention to that. But I just say like for me, it's just trying to be intentional when I'm out. Like restaurants is a great example with the people who are serving, trying

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Chris
 to be intentional with people that I do know who are unbelievers that I've been in contact with through my kids' sporting activities and school

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Chris
 and other people that I've just come to know and just trying to be like, okay, thinking through it and making the most of the opportunities that God brings about. And everybody can do that. You know, a lot of people, we don't even literally have neighbors.

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Chris
 I mean, the majority of my time other than the 10 months we were living in an apartment, like my neighbors, like it was a long walk to get to a neighbor. That's true of a lot of people.

[01:20:44:13 - 01:20:45:05]
Chris
 But

[01:20:47:00 - 01:20:53:15]
Chris
 we are around people and are we gonna be intentional about it? So the only other thing I would add here is

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Chris
 we just have to make the church

[01:21:01:14 - 01:21:43:06]
Chris
 a major priority in our lives. And when I say the church, that includes the mission of the church, which is to make disciples. And if the church is not a priority in our lives, and they answer your questions, impossible. You can't both be, you know, in the church part of the church worshiping, being built up, equipped, and then out on mission as the church, if it's not, if the church is not a priority in your life. And that's a big problem I think for a lot of people is it's yes, churches in their mix somewhere, but there's probably two, three, four things that are above it in priority.

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Brenton
 Okay. Well, that kind of brings me to one of our submitted questions. From the other perspective, says if you realize you've become too much like the world, how do you pursue greater purity without simply just withdrawing from those people? I mean, we all know the lines, like you are the company you keep and those things. And, you know, we would pull a lot of our kids back from hanging out with people that are affecting them badly, right? Like where is, how do we wisely walk through that?

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Chris
 This is hard to answer without a specific situation because it, I mean,

[01:22:27:15 - 01:22:54:02]
Chris
 I don't know that I can answer this too much other than to say, I do think that there are times where we do need to withdraw from the unbelievers we're hanging around because we're just not in a place in our walk where we're strong enough to not be influenced. So let's say the question is, are they influencing us more and influencing them more? And if they're influencing us more, we may need to withdraw at least somewhat so that we can

[01:22:55:21 - 01:23:21:13]
Chris
 get to a place and have people in our lives that are helping us to walk more closely and more faithfully with the Lord, where our character and our conduct more clearly reflects Christ. And that is true, especially for younger people, is just like, okay, your friends, you know, you're only gonna rise to the level of your most mature friend,

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Chris
 generally

[01:23:25:06 - 01:23:26:12]
Chris
 speaking. And so,

[01:23:29:21 - 01:23:30:13]
Chris
 yeah,

[01:23:32:16 - 01:23:35:18]
Chris
 I mean, again, I'd say-- No, I think that is a good answer. It's just like,

[01:23:37:01 - 01:23:40:18]
Chris
 there's no one clear cut answer for everybody. I

[01:23:42:00 - 01:23:49:04]
Chris
 would really want to talk to somebody and understand their situation and where they're at and like, who are these people and all of that.

[01:23:49:04 - 01:23:54:12]
Brenton
 But even just you saying, yeah, maybe you do need to pull back from that is, I think that's helpful.

[01:23:55:20 - 01:23:57:00]
Brenton
 Sure, sure. Yeah.

[01:23:58:03 - 01:24:10:00]
Brenton
 There's one interesting thing that you said that in the preservative metaphor, you said salt has to remain distinct from the meat, but it also has to permeate it.

[01:24:11:05 - 01:24:30:23]
Brenton
 What does that teach us about the kind of relationships Christians should have with unbelievers? I mean, we've all kind of heard the, in but not of argument. Can you kind of flesh out what that means to be, you know, in the world, but not of the world?

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Chris
 Well, none of the world goes back to

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Chris
 Christian character and conduct and to go further, that means that we're not going to believe like they believe, think like they think, speak like they speak, do some of the things that they do. Like there's going to be a discernible difference in all of those things.

[01:24:57:03 - 01:25:03:19]
Chris
 But being in the world is like, we're actually around them.

[01:25:03:19 - 01:25:05:06]
 (Laughing)

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Chris
 Like, and that might mean befriending people, but it also might mean like in our workplaces where we're going to engage in getting to know them and showing care and concern for them and striking up conversations with them.

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Chris
 If you are, if you do have neighbors, it's trying to be a good neighbor. Like, how do you help them out with things, care for things while they're gone? How are you friendly?

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Chris
 And just a variety of things like that. But there's also another instance too, you know, salt is,

[01:25:49:06 - 01:25:54:05]
Chris
 salt has another aspect to it that we didn't talk about, salt can be biting.

[01:25:55:15 - 01:25:58:08]
Chris
 Okay, you get salt in a wound, you know, there's another

[01:25:59:11 - 01:26:02:22]
Chris
 saying rubbing salt in the wound. Well, what does that mean? Like it

[01:26:04:04 - 01:26:06:21]
Chris
 burns, because salt doesn't feel good in a wound. And

[01:26:08:05 - 01:26:17:22]
Chris
 I think the metaphor there is speaking to there, there are times where we are going to need to call out and say, hey, like this is not right. Like John the Baptist, Zaharid, it's not right that you have her.

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Chris
 And there are times for us to stand up and say like this, and like, maybe take like this transgender is a issue and like,

[01:26:31:19 - 01:26:35:20]
Chris
 this is problematic, it's harmful to people. It's not only wrong, it's harmful

[01:26:36:23 - 01:27:02:04]
Chris
 to people. And now again, here's where Colossians 4-6 comes into play. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt so that you may know how to answer everyone. So that, you know, what Paul is saying there is, it should be in grace, it's more like seasoning there, makes it taste good. Like I'm speaking in

[01:27:03:08 - 01:27:10:23]
Chris
 a kind, gracious way. You can speak in a kind, gracious way, even as you say, this is not right. So,

[01:27:12:02 - 01:27:17:08]
Chris
 you know, if people are offended, we wanna be offended by the truth, not the way that we convey it.

[01:27:19:12 - 01:27:46:23]
Chris
 And so it's, again, this is more of an art this stuff is more of an art than a science. And we're going to fail at it at times and people, we shouldn't even expect that people like, if we are gracious and you know, we're the most wonderful people and the best neighbors ever that people aren't going to actually get upset and angry at us. And that it's always gonna go well because that's not gonna be the case at all.

[01:27:48:01 - 01:27:59:20]
Chris
 We should even, this is why the beatitudes are so important and the last beatitude is blessed are you when people persecute you. So can I do a quick rundown on the beatitudes? Okay, so the beatitudes lead into,

[01:28:00:20 - 01:28:12:01]
Chris
 we really need to read verses 13 through 16 in light of the beatitudes. So the beatitudes, they're eight or nine, you know, there's debate, but I go with eight

[01:28:13:23 - 01:28:31:14]
Chris
 because I think the last one's kind of repeated twice, but regardless, the beatitudes are the eight marks of a disciple. Jesus is saying, this is what it means to follow me. This is Christian character and Christian conduct. And then he says, you are the soul of the earth. Well, what does that mean? Well, you're the soul of the earth as you pursue these things. Now, as we pursue these things,

[01:28:33:02 - 01:28:36:15]
Chris
 the last one is you're gonna be persecuted.

[01:28:37:19 - 01:28:38:01]
Chris
 But

[01:28:39:05 - 01:28:49:16]
Chris
 Jesus' point there is as we are persecuted when we don't respond tit for tat and we don't like lash out and get angry and you know, and all this kind of stuff, but we

[01:28:51:02 - 01:28:57:12]
Chris
 respond differently than the world does that's when we are salt, that's when we are light. And so,

[01:28:59:04 - 01:29:09:08]
Chris
 and I've actually preached through the beatitudes twice, so encourage everybody to go back to those, but they're absolutely essential to this whole conversation.

[01:29:11:08 - 01:29:11:12]
Chris
 And

[01:29:12:15 - 01:29:25:12]
Chris
 Jesus actually begins with a character in conduct. This is the kingdom, this is life in my kingdom. And as you live out the life in my kingdom, you're salt, the earth and people are gonna give glory to your good works and glorify your father who's in heaven.

[01:29:27:02 - 01:29:28:00]
Chris
 Okay. Come on short of it.

[01:29:28:00 - 01:29:28:22]
Brenton
 Yeah, good.

[01:29:30:17 - 01:29:38:05]
Brenton
 You said renewal happens first in us and then through the Holy Spirit begins to happen through us.

[01:29:39:16 - 01:29:59:17]
Brenton
 How important is our ongoing transformation to our effectiveness in reaching other people? Because I think we in some ways can affect change in other people without being changed ourself, right? I think we've seen many examples of that. So what is the importance of actual change in our own life first?

[01:29:59:17 - 01:30:05:08]
Chris
 Well, I mean, I think it's absolutely essential. I mean, again, God can, you know,

[01:30:08:03 - 01:30:11:18]
Chris
 God can work through, He worked through a donkey in the Old Testament, so He can,

[01:30:12:20 - 01:30:20:15]
Chris
 I'm tempted to use another word, but probably it's not being gracious, but no,

[01:30:22:03 - 01:30:22:04]
Chris
 but

[01:30:24:05 - 01:30:50:08]
Chris
 so He can and He does work through very flawed people. And yet that shouldn't be an excuse for us to say, well, God's gonna work regardless of my weakness and failures, okay, fair enough. But, you know, that doesn't mean that we can't be more effective. And it doesn't mean we won't be more effective, the more really holy that we are. And He calls us to be holy,

[01:30:51:18 - 01:30:58:12]
Chris
 because when we're holy, that's when we're reflecting Him the most closely. And I think at the end of the day, the

[01:30:59:12 - 01:31:07:01]
Chris
 less that we are experiencing our own transformation, the more in danger that we are of actually leading and

[01:31:08:16 - 01:31:23:09]
Chris
 just being a part of the decay. And really there's a question for all of us, are we contributing to the transformation of our world? Are we just a part of the decay? Are we part of the problem or are we part of the solution?

[01:31:24:12 - 01:31:31:17]
Chris
 We will always be part of the problem until Christ returns because we're still gonna struggle with sin, but

[01:31:34:05 - 01:31:36:15]
Chris
 what is the overall tenor and direction of our life?

[01:31:36:15 - 01:31:52:14]
Brenton
 Well, it comes back a little bit to, you know, you began the sermon by saying that, you know, this is a fact about you that you are the salt of the earth. It's not something that we need to work toward, but at the same time, like as you were talking there in

[01:31:54:06 - 01:32:09:00]
Brenton
 Matthew five, that is assuming that we're working toward these beatitudes. Right. I think it's just an important distinction in the same way that like Paul says, you know, we need to take off and put on, right? Like these are identity statements.

[01:32:10:04 - 01:32:12:23]
Brenton
 I don't know, can you kind of flesh that out a little bit?

[01:32:12:23 - 01:32:20:21]
Chris
 Well, yeah, that just reminds me to go back to the passage again. Jesus says,

[01:32:22:06 - 01:32:31:04]
Chris
 "If salt has lost its taste, "how shall its saltiness be restored?" And really, here's the thing, salt can't lose its taste.

[01:32:32:10 - 01:32:35:00]
Chris
 Okay, so what is Jesus actually saying there? He's saying like,

[01:32:36:02 - 01:32:39:07]
Chris
 you can't, salt never loses its taste. And so

[01:32:41:12 - 01:32:49:05]
Chris
 this means you gotta take a hard look, and if we're not being salty, what is going on here?

[01:32:51:10 - 01:32:52:03]
Chris
 And

[01:32:53:12 - 01:32:54:06]
Chris
 so

[01:32:55:17 - 01:32:58:07]
Chris
 I think there's a big, big challenge for a lot of people

[01:32:59:12 - 01:33:08:16]
Chris
 is that if this is our identity, if this is who we are, then we're going to express that and

[01:33:09:21 - 01:33:16:06]
Chris
 that doesn't mean always or perfectly or anything like that, salt can't actually lose its saltiness.

[01:33:18:00 - 01:33:21:08]
Chris
 It literally, it never does lose its saltiness, that's what it is,

[01:33:22:12 - 01:33:26:06]
Chris
 right? I mean, by definition, so I mean, that's

[01:33:27:07 - 01:33:34:13]
Chris
 why we also tie in this illustration of getting out of the salt shaker. We are salt, let's get out in there. Be what you

[01:33:35:15 - 01:33:44:15]
Chris
 are, live out what you are. And if not, I mean, it's pretty strong, right? It's no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet, ouch.

[01:33:46:00 - 01:33:46:14]
Chris
 But

[01:33:48:02 - 01:34:07:14]
Chris
 the positive aspect of that is, is like we have an identity and a purpose. And I think, and I'll just finish with this, I don't think, I know so many people today are struggling with their identity, who they are, and then what are they here for? And those things go together.

[01:34:08:16 - 01:34:16:19]
Chris
 And I just wanna say to people, this is what you're, you wanna know who you are, and you wanna know what you're here for, there it is.

[01:34:18:14 - 01:34:18:14]
 (Laughs)

[01:34:18:14 - 01:34:32:00]
Chris
 And there's nothing that actually will provide you more fulfillment than that because, just think about these people, right? I mean, these are Galilean peasants close to it.

[01:34:33:04 - 01:34:47:18]
Chris
 One of the most remotest parts of the world at that time, a forgotten place. It's hard for us to imagine Israel being a forgotten place today, but there it was, like, it's the Roman, and Jesus telling these people, "Hey, you're gonna change the world."

[01:34:48:23 - 01:34:48:23]
 (Laughs)

[01:34:48:23 - 01:35:00:12]
Chris
 The earth, like the world is a big place. And he goes, "You, like you, and you are the light of the world." I mean, how much they have even under, like,

[01:35:01:18 - 01:35:16:21]
Chris
 it's pretty obvious they didn't really believe it for a long, long time. And he's saying the same thing to us today. And so as we look out at this dark world, we look out at a culture world that's falling apart, and we're like, "Well, what can we do?" Well, we can do it locked.

[01:35:18:03 - 01:35:18:20]
Chris
 We can do it locked.

[01:35:18:20 - 01:35:27:00]
Brenton
 Okay, all right, we'll wrap there. Thanks, Chris. If you guys have any questions, ask it for the podcast.com. Next week.

[01:35:27:00 - 01:35:29:00]
 (Upbeat Music)